New Champions League at 2024 and on

[amenina]

@amenina Not decided when FIFA World Cup qualifying draw for Europe will be?

It is not written in the 2024 schedule given by UEFA, so most likely not decided yet.

[babaluj1]

Is it known how many strong pots will be in the new CL next year and how it will be drawn?
If clubs play with 8 different opponents, logically there should be 9 strong pots with 4 clubs and everyone plays one opponent from one strength group, except those from their own strength group. I am right?

[Forza AZ]

Is it known how many strong pots will be in the new CL next year and how it will be drawn?
If clubs play with 8 different opponents, logically there should be 9 strong pots with 4 clubs and everyone plays one opponent from one strength group, except those from their own strength group. I am right?

There will be 4 pots of 9 teams, and every team will play 2 teams from each Pot (including their own Pot), one at home and 1 away.

[babaluj1]

Thanks! They are all in the same position than,all playing 2 matches with all 4 pots.

[Tazmania]

It is more likely that they will be increased.

Exactly! The new UEFA CL format from 2027/28 with only 16 clubs is already being discussed, apparently modeled after the Star Superliga. The fact is that with twice as many clubs, twice as much profit can be paid, if they keep the same income.
Let's guess which clubs will be inside? This is probably the main reason why almost all Top clubs have given up on the Superliga.

I meant to say that the SL will increase the privileges of the wealthiest clubs.

[rpo.castro]

The system is clearly unfair.
The countries with more spots in CL have automatically more money and more bonus points that will improve their ranking

Not sure that if UEFA lose its monopoly, the privileges will be reduced.

If that was 100% true, there would be no changes in UEFA ranking, and 6th position has been changing and even 5th under threat.
Money generates money and aound 2000 football income has increased hugely so the gap between the teams that get more income and those who doesn't, increased.

Premier League money is astronomic because they are by far the best, Bundesliga really put their hands at work and transformed their championship in a very good championship, Italy is constantly tainted by scandals and lost the aura it used to have in the 90's and are clearly behind Premier League. La Liga has the 2 giants and had Messi (and Ronaldo) for quite a long time

Galacticos transfers (Figo for 60M, Zidane for 70M) are common nowadays, so we have european football (or world football since south American teams were even in Intercontinental cup and now they don't have a chance) going in two different lanes: high speed and cargo speed.

This was driven by the market (advertising, tv rights) and UEFA is just taking advantage of it, not the cause of it.

[babaluj1]

When I talk about the reduction of privileges in the UEFA leagues, I do not mean only the Top 5 leagues. UEFA will definitely have to at least double the earnings of the top clubs in the CL, if it wants to keep them.
The worst privilege that UEFA gives is the special privileged path of the champions in the qualifiers. I would abolish that first, because with the luck of the draw, very weak clubs enter the CL, EL and ECL just because they are champions.
Giving direct places in the CL to the champions of countries that never pass the GS is also pointless, it only weakens the CL. I would reduce the direct places to the champions and runners-up of the Top 4 league, and the champions of leagues 5 to 7, all other clubs would go to the qualifications. This means that only 11 clubs directly enter the CL, and 25 enter through the joint qualifications of the Swiss system. Let them prove in the joint qualifications with the Swiss system that they deserve a place in the CL, EL or ECL. In the 2 qualifying preliminary rounds, we eliminate the weakest clubs and divide the 100 strongest clubs into 4 strong groups, and each club plays with 4 different opponents (2 at home, 2 away).
After 4 rounds, ie 200 games played, the Top 25 clubs go to the CL, 26.-61. goes to EL, and 62..-97. goes to ECL.
If privileges are to be given to the champions, then let it be 3 starting points of advantage in the qualifications, Cup winners 2 starting points and runners up 1 starting point. That would be a much fairer qualification system than the one we have today, and the qualifications would be more watched and much more profitable because the giants of European football would participate in them.

[fabiomh]

...
After 4 rounds, ie 200 games played, the Top 25 clubs go to the CL, 26.-61. goes to EL, and 62..-97. goes to ECL.
....

Yes, It's an interesting method, it can be in some way analyzed.
This way it's possible that some N4 of Top4 Leagues does not reach CL.
But on the other hand, there is the risk that all the 7/8 English teams go in CL, and none of them in EL and ECL, that is the other way.
The current constraint of maximum 5 teams per league cannot be ensured.

***EDIT***
Of course we all know that the current system is a privilege for Top leagues, and it's not fair, because is something similar to a SuperLeague, where the Top teams want to be always present.

[Tazmania]

Yes, but that is also conditional on the wealthiest clubs qualifying via their domestic leagues which has always ensured the CL comprises the best against the best, which is not necessarily the same as the biggest against the biggest.

[rpo.castro]

When I talk about the reduction of privileges in the UEFA leagues, I do not mean only the Top 5 leagues. UEFA will definitely have to at least double the earnings of the top clubs in the CL, if it wants to keep them.
The worst privilege that UEFA gives is the special privileged path of the champions in the qualifiers. I would abolish that first, because with the luck of the draw, very weak clubs enter the CL, EL and ECL just because they are champions.
Giving direct places in the CL to the champions of countries that never pass the GS is also pointless, it only weakens the CL. I would reduce the direct places to the champions and runners-up of the Top 4 league, and the champions of leagues 5 to 7, all other clubs would go to the qualifications. This means that only 11 clubs directly enter the CL, and 25 enter through the joint qualifications of the Swiss system. Let them prove in the joint qualifications with the Swiss system that they deserve a place in the CL, EL or ECL. In the 2 qualifying preliminary rounds, we eliminate the weakest clubs and divide the 100 strongest clubs into 4 strong groups, and each club plays with 4 different opponents (2 at home, 2 away).
After 4 rounds, ie 200 games played, the Top 25 clubs go to the CL, 26.-61. goes to EL, and 62..-97. goes to ECL.
If privileges are to be given to the champions, then let it be 3 starting points of advantage in the qualifications, Cup winners 2 starting points and runners up 1 starting point. That would be a much fairer qualification system than the one we have today, and the qualifications would be more watched and much more profitable because the giants of European football would participate in them.

From a neutral point of view seems a way better solution, and doesn't seem very different (regarding CL) from what we used to have 10 years ago, maybe a bit more.
But the qualification changed, and more important we know why it changed.
More direct spots to please top leagues and prevent the superleague (and also maximize revenue) and the champions path to please the mid leagues and grant some support from them. It was one idea of Platini I think.

The champions path in ECL bring stupid outcomes, the competitive gap between champions and no champions is really huge.
In CL the gap is not so big. Having champions path brings you more diversity, but its not very visible: Without champions path this season maybe you could have another scottish team, another french instead of one from belgium or turkey.
Not much of a difference, and could be the opposite as well. Two more or two less, not much difference.
I think this champions path can easily being scrapped.

The other one, I would like-more competition, more interesting matches, more spots decided on the pitch, but I don't see it coming.

My evaluation about UEFA and their competitions is, it could be better, but it can be way worse especially if turned into a closed competition.

[babaluj1]

...
After 4 rounds, ie 200 games played, the Top 25 clubs go to the CL, 26.-61. goes to EL, and 62..-97. goes to ECL.
....

Yes, It's an interesting method, it can be in some way analyzed.
This way it's possible that some N4 of Top4 Leagues does not reach CL.
But on the other hand, there is the risk that all the 7/8 English teams go in CL, and none of them in EL and ECL, that is the other way.
The current constraint of maximum 5 teams per league cannot be ensured.

***EDIT***
Of course we all know that the current system is a privilege for Top leagues, and it's not fair, because is something similar to a SuperLeague, where the Top teams want to be always present.

Only the best 100 teams would play those qualifications using the Swiss method, of which the weakest ones passed 2 preliminary rounds. So, there are no easy victories here, especially not on away games. Of the 27 clubs from the Top 5 leagues, at least ten would not reach the CL because they would need at least 3 wins to reach the CL, and there is also the possibility of playing among themselves.
Who would be there in those 100? Probably 6 clubs from the English and Italian leagues, 5 from Germany, Spain, France and the Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, maybe Turkey, the best clubs from Scotland, the Czech Republic, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Greece, Israel, Poland, Croatia, Serbia, Cyprus and another ten or twenty strong clubs from lower ranked countries.
It would not be easy to get 3 wins in 4 matches, as it looks at first for 3,4,5,6,7,8. placed clubs of the strongest leagues, and 9 points would be the minimum for CL. It would be easier for the champions, they would only need 6 points. It means two wins + 3 starting points. Cup winners would need 7 points + 2 starting points, and runners-up 8 points + 1 starting point.

[Clockingbell]

The system is clearly unfair.
The countries with more spots in CL have automatically more money and more bonus points that will improve their ranking

Not sure that if UEFA lose its monopoly, the privileges will be reduced.

If that was 100% true, there would be no changes in UEFA ranking, and 6th position has been changing and even 5th under threat.

The difference between 6th and 7th is relevant and big, but the difference with 5th and 4th is way bigger. 5/6 vs 4 or 3 clubs that are guaranteed a group and 1 or 2 CL ticket. More money and security

[babaluj1]

CL has not been CL for a long time, the national champions are a minority there. Why is the current UEFA system deformed? That's because a good number of non-champions and champions do not deserve direct places in the CL, and neither does the winner of the EL.
The top 5 countries are protected because they don't play any more qualifications at all, except PO ECL. That way, there's no chance of anyone taking the Big League Top 5 off the top.
The biggest victim of this UEFA system is currently Portugal, which has 4 strong clubs that would be competitive in the CL, but unfortunately not all of them can play in the CL qualifiers. Next season they have only one place in the CL and one place in the CL qualifiers. Portugal is not in decline because of a bad league and bad clubs, but because of a deformed system of qualifications. In three years, Portuguese clubs have not once qualified for the ECL, although they are much stronger than the vast majority of champions who come to the ECL through a special route for champions. The same applies to Dutch clubs that are relegated in the ECL qualifiers. The system is such that it is easier to pass the ECL group than to qualify for that ECL group as a non-champion.
The best example this season is the Croatian champion Dinamo, who reached the GS ECL through a special route for champions, after being eliminated in the CL qualifiers, then eliminated in the EL qualifications. Fortunately, in the same ECL group there were two other clubs that arrived via a special route for the champions, so with a lot of luck, ECL made it to the knockout phase. Realistically, it is the worst Dinamo in the last ten years, only third in the HNL at the moment., While first-placed Hajduk and second-placed Rijeka were eliminated in the ECL qualifiers by PAOK and Lille. Even in Kosovo, Dinamo lost smoothly 2:0 against Ballkani, the only team they were better than this season was Astana and they reached the knockout stage.
​

[Overgame]

Sometimes, I wonder if he is rooted in reality.

From 99/00 to 08/09 top 5 countries had 8 (7 if the TH finished 3rd or 4th) teams in the qualification.
*: clash between 2 top 5 teams.

99/00: 6/8
00/01: 5/7*
01/02: 7/8*
02/03: 7/7
03/04: 5/7
04/05: 7/7
05/06: 6/8**
06/07: 6/8*
07/08: 6/7*
08/09: 6/7*

Total: 61/74, so 13 eliminations in 10 years, 7 of which were clashes with another top 5 teams. Let's list the 6 eliminations by aa team outside the top 5:

99/00: Rangers - Parma and Molde - Mallorca
00/01: Helsinborg - Inter
03/04: Brugge - Dortmund and Partizan - Newcastle
06/07: Levski - Chievo

So in summary:
74 ties - 61/67 against non top 5. Wow they really need protection. So why does it matter to me, from Belgium? Standard de Liège (and only god knows that I don't like this team, call it a "rivalry" if you wish)

05/06 they finished 2nd in Belgium.
06/07 They have a shot at CL, but they were eliminated by Steaua (who had reached the UC semis the previous season) and, as a reward, got Celta Vigo in UCR1. Standard finished 3rd in the league.
07/08 Zenit in UCR1. You know, the UC winner in 07/08. Standard won the title.
08/09 Liverpool in CLqR3, lost AET. Everton in UCR1, FFS. But they managed to qualify, finally! Topped a difficult group in UC but went out against Braga. Standard won the title.
09/10 finaly playing the CLGS, reached UC last 8 but their golden few years are over. Thanks a lot.

On a side note, I don't want to create a new conspiracy theory, but:
99/00: no top 5 unsseded
00/01: 2 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
01/02: 1 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
02/03: 1 top 5 unseeded, no clash
03/04: no top 5 unseeded
04/05: no top 5 unseeded
05/06: 3 top 5 unseeded, 2 clashes
06/07: 2 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
07/08: 1 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
08/09: 1 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash

11 unsseded, 7 clashes when the probability of a clash happening is around 30-35%. UEFA was so "unlucky".

[fabiomh]

99/00: no top 5 unsseded
00/01: 2 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
01/02: 1 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
02/03: 1 top 5 unseeded, no clash
03/04: no top 5 unseeded
04/05: no top 5 unseeded
05/06: 3 top 5 unseeded, 2 clashes
06/07: 2 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
07/08: 1 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash
08/09: 1 top 5 unseeded, 1 clash

11 unsseded, 7 clashes when the probability of a clash happening is around 30-35%. UEFA was so "unlucky".

that's interesting.
all the clashes are related to unseeded teams?
If not, curious to see the clash split between seeded and unseeded Top5 teams... to see the related % of clashes for the two groups
when I will have a bit of time, I will do it.