Russia would get 4.333 Points for 2022-23!

[SteffenM]

The sad thing about this.
FIFA don't care.

They care about money, politics and getting elected.

Therefore the rest of the world need to stand united for human rigths, and against oppressor's

UEFA also just called to action, after the first countries and clubs refused to play Russian ones.
The same would be for the World Cup. If 2-3 of the big countries refused to play World Cup in Qatar, this would have been looking different.

Wonder how much Gazproms sponsor money made a difference?

[air]

Reading this topic I am all the time confused which rule is the best to follow. Ban all politics from football, allow all politics in football?
If we ban all politics from football, then what the hell is "UEFA values"? Aren't they politically determinated by any chance?:D If we ban all politics from football, then why is Russia banned - but okay, let's suppose that attacking a souvereign country might be enough reason for that -, then what is to do with Putin being in power? UEFA will decide if the Russian election is democratic or not?
If we allow all politics in football, then why to remove banners and giving penalties on matches?

So this is of course a difficult topic, which could and will go on for a long time.
Anti-racism is fair game. Sometimes kneeling.
LBTG rights are sometimes fair game, unless it is in Russia or Hungary etc.

And can you ban politics, when it is everywhere?
PSG, Man. City, Newcastle, Qatar, Russia, China etc.

So I would argue when it's not about politics, but about human rigts, UEFA should step in.
And the fight against racism, for LBTG and for any sovereign state and the right to live free, the right to live, the right to freedom of speech.

This are human rights, not politics.

All of these categories lead to double standards. What are human rights? I don't know if there is a UN agreement on that or not, but I am sure that legally and practically they are handled country by country differently.

Same for lgbt rights etc., who decides where are lgbt rights in danger and why? The ironic thing is if I cannot say my opinion about lgbt rights, that's already against the freedom of speech, another "human rights".

Instead, I would allow all verbal forms of fans expressing themselves politically or not politically on football matches. Teams also with kneeling or so as long as it keeps KO time in respect. And I would ban all physical forms of violence. That is a clear line, very small place for double standards.

About banning countries, I also think it's thin ice, there are many war conflicts all over the world, see this wiki article.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _conflicts

Pretty sure that Africa and Asia has many teams involved in war conflict but qualifying to the WC at the same time.

[Firnen]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

[air]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

Surely I support the idea of leaving Uefa

[OlliWender]

Just like all countries are free to leave the EU anytime they want too, but it hasn't exactly worked out well for Britain, has it?

[Lorric]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

Would it have actually gone that way though if push came to shove? When the Netherlands women refused to play Belarus and UEFA didn't cave, the Dutch fell in line rather than risk failing World Cup qualification. If UEFA had said Russia's going to the World Cup if you don't play them, I think Poland, Czechs and Sweden, or at the very least at least one of them, would have fallen in line and played Russia rather than fall on their sword. Similarly club competition, too much money in UEFA club competition which clubs would have already factored into their budgets to afford losing out on.

[OlliWender]

Didn't the Uefa vs Madrid/Barca/Juve Super League case only just start a few weeks ago at the ECJ? Going to be very nervy times for Uefa...

Edit: This guy has some info https://twitter.com/lewis_crofts/status ... 7229203459

[matt]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

You just confirmed that it is a political choice, not a human rights issue. When a western country will invade another country again UEFA and FIFA won't dare to exclude them from international competitions.

@Air: to do what and play against whom? Does not make much sense.

[SteffenM]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

Would it have actually gone that way though if push came to shove? When the Netherlands women refused to play Belarus and UEFA didn't cave, the Dutch fell in line rather than risk failing World Cup qualification. If UEFA had said Russia's going to the World Cup if you don't play them, I think Poland, Czechs and Sweden, or at the very least at least one of them, would have fallen in line and played Russia rather than fall on their sword. Similarly club competition, too much money in UEFA club competition which clubs would have already factored into their budgets to afford losing out on.

There is one very important point here.
It really take some "balls", some principles and courage to be the first one to say no,
and really hope others will follow.

In Icehockey the Would Cup was getting moved away from Belarus. But maybe it was the sponsor which were the promotor for this.
But it can be done.

[OlliWender]

Sports has always been political. Just look at any Olympics from 1936 onwards...

[Firnen]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

Would it have actually gone that way though if push came to shove? When the Netherlands women refused to play Belarus and UEFA didn't cave, the Dutch fell in line rather than risk failing World Cup qualification. If UEFA had said Russia's going to the World Cup if you don't play them, I think Poland, Czechs and Sweden, or at the very least at least one of them, would have fallen in line and played Russia rather than fall on their sword. Similarly club competition, too much money in UEFA club competition which clubs would have already factored into their budgets to afford losing out on.

It would be the end of UEFA to appear pro-Russia right now.
Putin is Hitler No.2 in the eyes of the Western public opinion, and like it or not, the West sets the tone and that's where the money come from in football.
You would have a Super League and a national team Super League within 6 months if UEFA appeared to be tolerant to Russia.
Or a palace coup against Ceferin, they would find some corruption charges and replace him with a more aligned president.

[SteffenM]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

You just confirmed that it is a political choice, not a human rights issue. When a western country will invade another country again UEFA and FIFA won't dare to exclude them from international competitions.

@Air: to do what and play against whom? Does not make much sense.

UEFA and FIFA doesn't dare to do anything besides putting in more matches, follow the money and bribe some countries.
It's all about bargain power. And when the western countries stand united they have a lot of bargain power. Both in value of the sport and in terms of pure money.

And agree. If UEFA wouldn't ban Russia, there would be some very good incentives to create something else, for instance The Super League.
They would just need to be a bit more including to get the Scandinavians and Baltic countries on board for instance.

[OlliWender]

There was the same discussion with FIFA/UEFA possibly banning the best players playing in Super League teams for Euros or World Cups.

It's impossible. The powerful countries would threaten to leave FIFA and start their own World Cup. Nobody would care about a tournament without Brazil, Argentina, England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc.

[Lorric]

It's rather simple.

UEFA had to choose: either Russia plays, or the whole West. They can't have both, because the Western countries wouldn't play.

And UEFA would dissolve without the big Western Federations, simple as that.

Like it or not, the West dominates the football world. You're free to leave FIFA or UEFA and form your own federation if you dont like it.

Would it have actually gone that way though if push came to shove? When the Netherlands women refused to play Belarus and UEFA didn't cave, the Dutch fell in line rather than risk failing World Cup qualification. If UEFA had said Russia's going to the World Cup if you don't play them, I think Poland, Czechs and Sweden, or at the very least at least one of them, would have fallen in line and played Russia rather than fall on their sword. Similarly club competition, too much money in UEFA club competition which clubs would have already factored into their budgets to afford losing out on.

It would be the end of UEFA to appear pro-Russia right now.
Putin is Hitler No.2 in the eyes of the Western public opinion, and like it or not, the West sets the tone and that's where the money come from in football.
You would have a Super League and a national team Super League within 6 months if UEFA appeared to be tolerant to Russia.
Or a palace coup against Ceferin, they would find some corruption charges and replace him with a more aligned president.

I just can't see it. That they'd go moving mountains like that rather than just play the competitions when most teams wouldn't even meet a Russian team. Would someone like Mansour want to win the new competition or the one with all the rich history? Would he even care about Russia? I couldn't see clubs being able to get their shareholders and investors to take the hit, they invested to make money.

[Firnen]

Would it have actually gone that way though if push came to shove? When the Netherlands women refused to play Belarus and UEFA didn't cave, the Dutch fell in line rather than risk failing World Cup qualification. If UEFA had said Russia's going to the World Cup if you don't play them, I think Poland, Czechs and Sweden, or at the very least at least one of them, would have fallen in line and played Russia rather than fall on their sword. Similarly club competition, too much money in UEFA club competition which clubs would have already factored into their budgets to afford losing out on.

It would be the end of UEFA to appear pro-Russia right now.
Putin is Hitler No.2 in the eyes of the Western public opinion, and like it or not, the West sets the tone and that's where the money come from in football.
You would have a Super League and a national team Super League within 6 months if UEFA appeared to be tolerant to Russia.
Or a palace coup against Ceferin, they would find some corruption charges and replace him with a more aligned president.

That they'd go moving mountains like that rather than just play the competitions when most teams wouldn't even meet a Russian team.

Yes.
Russia is like Nazi Germany for the West now.