Spreadsheet for European Cups - Feedback & Suggestions

[Sagy]

@eye, @amenina, you are both making valid points.

Back to the Italy scenario (#5 in top 4 country wins UEL and country win an EPS spot. The way I read it:
1) top 4 in UCL
2) #5 in UCL as UEL winner
3) EPS spot is awarded so #6 goes to UCL as well

[seso]

...and with a much lower price.

I am not sure about that!!

[eye]

@eye, @amenina, you are both making valid points.

Back to the Italy scenario (#5 in top 4 country wins UEL and country win an EPS spot. The way I read it:
1) top 4 in UCL
2) #5 in UCL as UEL winner
3) EPS spot is awarded so #6 goes to UCL as well

The EPS is allocated to the club that finishes the relevant association's domestic championship in the highest position of all those that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship (after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06).

Italy has 4 spots at CL so clearly the spot goes to the 5th club as it is written.

[dnina10]

@eye, @amenina, you are both making valid points.

Back to the Italy scenario (#5 in top 4 country wins UEL and country win an EPS spot. The way I read it:
1) top 4 in UCL
2) #5 in UCL as UEL winner
3) EPS spot is awarded so #6 goes to UCL as well

I was thinking about this earlier today. This could also happen to Germany (realistically) with Borussia Dortmund

[Sagy]

@eye, @amenina, you are both making valid points.

Back to the Italy scenario (#5 in top 4 country wins UEL and country win an EPS spot. The way I read it:
1) top 4 in UCL
2) #5 in UCL as UEL winner
3) EPS spot is awarded so #6 goes to UCL as well

The EPS is allocated to the club that finishes the relevant association's domestic championship in the highest position of all those that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship (after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06).

Italy has 4 spots at CL so clearly the spot goes to the 5th club as it is written.

If your reading is correct, might very well be, then the #5 team in Italy (or Germany, if @dnina10 case happens) will grab 2 UCL spots (UEL-W and EPS) and as a result one of them (can assume UEL-W) will not be used. That will be the same case as when the UEL-W finish in a domestic spot which gives them a UCL spot.

[eye]

@eye, @amenina, you are both making valid points.

Back to the Italy scenario (#5 in top 4 country wins UEL and country win an EPS spot. The way I read it:
1) top 4 in UCL
2) #5 in UCL as UEL winner
3) EPS spot is awarded so #6 goes to UCL as well

The EPS is allocated to the club that finishes the relevant association's domestic championship in the highest position of all those that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship (after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06).

Italy has 4 spots at CL so clearly the spot goes to the 5th club as it is written.

If your reading is correct, might very well be, then the #5 team in Italy (or Germany, if @dnina10 case happens) will grab 2 UCL spots (UEL-W and EPS) and as a result one of them (can assume UEL-W) will not be used. That will be the same case as when the UEL-W finish in a domestic spot which gives them a UCL spot.

Normally this will happen but since the EPS are award after the end of the title holders rebalancing they may consider the spot as "other vacancy" and apply the 3.06 article which gives the spot to the next in rank country (not so likely though).

The point is that we were expecting regulations to find out how the new system will work and after regulations were published we have already seen different opinions of me and @Fotcalc on a matter, different opinion from @bert.kassies on the access list and even worse we have doubts about things which were supposed that are known (we were sure that there will be rebalancing based on club coefficients in case the 5th of a country that got EPS was a title holder).

[Sagy]

@eye as stated earlier, total agreement that the regulations as written are open to interpretations. I don’t think that anyone here is saying otherwise. I’m just providing an opinion on how I think UEFA will read it.

I must admit that I have a hard time seeing the case of #5 being both UEL-W and the country being one of the two EPS leading to “other vacancy” and 3.06 application. Also must be said that I have been wrong before when it comes to predicting how UEFA will act.

[nogomet]

@eye Could you please update your spreadsheet for the change in the EL regulations that made it clear that it is not possible to jump from EL-Q1 to EL-Q3 in ECL titleholder rebalancing scheme?

[eye]

@eye Could you please update your spreadsheet for the change in the EL regulations that made it clear that it is not possible to jump from EL-Q1 to EL-Q3 in ECL titleholder rebalancing scheme?

Yes I will update it I am just waiting a bit in case there are further changes at regulations. As I understand instead of promoting the highest ranked club of EL-Q1 to EL-Q3 they will promote the highest ranked of EL-Q1 club to EL-Q2 and will create one more pair at EL-Q2. So the changes at access list will look like this:

EL-Q3: 3 entries, 3 from CL-Q2nc, 8 from EL-Q2 will change to 2 entries (1 will move due to ECL-W rebalancing to EL-PO) 3 from CL-Q2nc, 9 from EL-Q2
EL-Q2: 7 entries, 9 from EL-Q1 will change to 8 entries (1 of them the highest ranked club that would have started at EL-Q1), 10 from EL-Q1
EL-Q1 18 entries will change to 20 entries (3 CW based on country ranking will come from ECL-Q2)

While the above seems to be clear it is still unclear what will happen at the rebalancing based on country ranking at EL-Q3 which is much likely to happen. Benfica will most likely be promoted at CL-LP due to EL-W rebalancing. The article 3.06 of CL regulations claims that CW of previous round will take the spot but there aren't CW at EL-Q2

"In the event of any other vacancies, and further knock-on effects in the UEFA Europa League and/or UEFA Conference League, priority is given to the best ranked club(s) in the UEFA Champions League or the domestic cup winner(s) in the UEFA Europa League and/or UEFA Conference League (or the club(s) replacing it if it qualifies for the UEFA Champions League) of the association ranked highest in the access list for the previous round of the corresponding path."

We are also coming at the same situation if Dortmund wins CL but finishes at EL spot in Germany and/or Roma/Atalanta wins EL and finishes at EL spot in Germany (Benfica will not be promoted at CL-LP in such case) cause their spots at EL-LP will be given to clubs of EL-PO based on country ranking and the spots of EL-PO clubs will be given to EL-Q3 clubs again based on country ranking.

Based on the logic of ECL-W rebalancing for such case we should create again one more pair at EL-Q2 but if we use this logic then we should also create one pair at CL-Q3 in order to replace Shakhtar at CL-PO cause at regulations of CL is also written the highest ranked club of previous round and there aren't clubs that are starting at CL-Q3 which cannot really happen because we will have one more club at EL-PO. So since both articles (for CL-W and/or EL-W rebalancing and for knock-on effects) are at CL regulations the meaning of "previous round" should be applied the same way. So are we promoting EL-Q1 club(s) to EL-Q3 or are we creating a pair at EL-Q2 for such cases?

That's why I am waiting a bit to make changes cause I am expecting further explanations soon.

[Partizan_Belgrad]

UCL Quali, non champions:
Why Feberbahce as a starter in Q2 and not Sturm Graz?!?
Fenerbahce has a much higher club coefficient!

[eye]

UCL Quali, non champions:
Why Feberbahce as a starter in Q2 and not Sturm Graz?!?
Fenerbahce has a much higher club coefficient!

Benfica is promoted from CL-Q3 to CL-LP due to EL-W rebalancing, Slavia Prague has the highest coefficient of CL-Q2 so replaces Benfica at CL-Q3 but now CL-Q2 has 5 clubs and one should be promoted to CL-Q3. Since this is a new vacancy at CL-Q3 country ranking is used so Austria's N2 is moved to CL-Q3. That's what I understand from the CL regulations.

[Partizan_Belgrad]

@eye:

You are wrong...take a look at the end:

"A vacancy created by the UEFA Europa League titleholder is filled by the club with the best individual club coefficient of all the clubs that qualify for the champions path and the league path, provided that this club is the highest ranked domestically of those from its association that have not already qualified for the league phase of the competition directly. If this condition of being the highest ranked domestic club is not met by the club with the highest individual club coefficient, then the position moves to the club with the next highest individual club coefficient of all clubs in the champions path and league path. Once the vacancy is filled, the champions path or league path is adapted accordingly, with each subsequent vacancy filled by the club(s) with the highest individual club coefficient(s) of all the clubs in the previous round of the corresponding path."

That means, at the moment - Slavia and Fenerbahče as Q3 starters (not Sturm Graz).

[eye]

The vacancy created cause EL-W is already at CL-LP is filled by Benfica
The vacancy created cause Benfica is moved to CL-LP is filled to Slavia

So all subsequent vacancies are filled based on this article. At access list there are 5 clubs that are starting at CL-Q3 and we still have 5 since Benfica is replaced by Slavia and at Q2 there are 6 clubs at access list but since Slavia is moved to Q3 so now we have 5. This has as result a new vacancy to be created at CL-Q3 and should be filled based on article 3.06

In the event of any other vacancies, and further knock-on effects in the UEFA Europa League and/or UEFA Conference League, priority is given to the best ranked club(s) in the UEFA Champions League or the domestic cup winner(s) in the UEFA Europa League and/or UEFA Conference League (or the club(s) replacing it if it qualifies for the UEFA Champions League) of the association ranked highest in the access list for the previous round of the corresponding path.

Next association in the access list is Austria

The second club is promoted from CL-Q2 to CL-Q3 not cause of EL-W rebalancing but because originally we needed to eliminate 3 clubs at Q2 in order to have 8 clubs totally at Q3 and now we need to eliminate 2 clubs in order to have the 8 Q3 clubs. Of course this in this case it is a result of EL-W rebalancing procedure but it may be from many other reasons (eg Russia's ban, ECL-W qualified at CL but chose to take part at EL-LP) so in my opinion article 3.06 will be applied in this case. The regulations are not clear but 70-80% I am correct at this one

[Afanas]

What happens to the CL rebalancing if:
1. Dortmund wins the CL.
2. Dortmund finishes 5th in Bundesliga.
3. Germany finishes in the top 2 yearly ranking and wins an extra CL spot.

Will the rebalance go on exactly as if the CL winner has already a CL league phase spot? Or there will be a sixth CL spot for Germany? Or something else?

[Sagy]

What happens to the CL rebalancing if:
1. Dortmund wins the CL.
2. Dortmund finishes 5th in Bundesliga.
3. Germany finishes in the top 2 yearly ranking and wins an extra CL spot.

Will the rebalance go on exactly as if the CL winner has already a CL league phase spot? Or there will be a sixth CL spot for Germany? Or something else?

There has been discussion on such a possibility and it’s open to interpretation. As I read it, in this scenario, Germany will have 6 teams in UCL.