The new season of the Greek SuperLeague will start August 20th (probably, because you never know in Greece).
The only change in the 14 participants is Levadiakos replacing Apollon Smyrni.
Olympiacos, Aris and PAOK will start their season 1 month earlier, in the 2nd Qualifying Round of Champions League and Conference League.
Olympiacos is facing Maccabi Haifa.
PAOK is facing Levski Sofia.
Aris is facing Gomel.
The teams have't been very active in the transfer market so far.
Greek Football Season 22/23
Next week, Greek clubs enter European competitions for the 2022-23 seasons.
The champions Olympiacos face Maccabi Haifa in the UCL while 2nd placed PAOK and 3rd placed Aris face Levski Sofia and Gomel in the UECL.
Here is a brief recap of their transfer activity so far and changes since the end of last season:
Olympiacos has brought in RB Vrsajlko (from Atletico Madrid), RB Avila (from Huddersfield), winger Zinckernagel (from Watford) and CF Kamara (from Aris). Wingers Onyekuru and Rony Lopes have left the club, as has RB Karbownik, while Olympiacos has a long list of players that are not part of the team but still haven't found a club to take them (including Semedo, Lala, Pepe, Fortounis and many others).
The activity so far has left most Olympiacos fans dissatisfied, because the club is coming from a very mediocre season with bad football, and Pedro Martins seems to become more and more defensive-minded in his philosophy after 4 years at the helm, and opting for players with characterestics that make them unpopular to the fans: see Onyekuru, Bruma, LB Reabchuk. He values athletic abilities and stamina more than technical skills and the pre-season has indicated that set-pieces are what he relies on for scoring this early in the season, with CB Cisse being a permanent threat from corners.
In addition to that, multiple failed transfers the last 2 years led to almost the entire scouting department to leave, and the owner himself and his son (!) are rumoured to be personally handling the transfers this year. The owner's media have made it clear that another "Ludogorets" won't be tolerated and Pedro Martins is assuring everyone that the team will be ready for the Qualifiers.
Many people will wonder, why this turmoil in a club that won the league easily and reached the EL Knock-Out Round? Welcome to Olympiacos. The league title is seen as the bare minimum, and the fans are craving a European deep run after almost a decade of reaching ELR32/ELR16. And of course the reactive football will never be popular with the fanbase.
Olympiacos is expected to play with Vaclik under the goalposts, Reabchuk on the left, Cisse and Sokratis or Manolas at CB, Vrsajlko on the right, Yann Mvila and Mady Camara in the centre with Aguibou Camara in front of them, Masouras and Zinckernagel on the wings and El Arabi in attack.
PAOK has brought in GK Kotarski (from Gorica), winger Quagliata (from Wanderers), midfielder Narey (from Fortuna Dusseldofr), CB Kargas (from PAS Giannina), LB Rafa Soares (from Guimaraes), CF Thomas (from Malaga), CB Nasberg (from Valerenga), CAM Andre Ricardo (from Famalicao) and CM Dantas (from Benfica). Many players left as well, including CBs Crespo and Varela, GK Paschalakis, CFs Akpom and Colak, winger Mitrita and LB Sidcley.
PAOK has a new sporting director as well, Portuguese Jose Boto. There is a change in the model and an attempt to make the squad a bit younger - last year the starting 11 had many players over the age of 30. It's a question mark how quickly they will band together and how good the new players are in comparison with the ones to left - at least for the first qualifying matches, where PAOK faces an issue at the CF position since Oliveira is injured.
The expected starting eleven for PAOK vs Levski isn't clear yet, but from what I see from the reporters, it will be something like that: Kotarski GK, Ingasson and Kargas CB, Rafa Soares and Sastre wing backs, Kurtic and Koutsias will be starters but the rest of the midfield is unclear from the friendlies so far, also because some starters are coming from injuries.
Aris has changed almost the whole team, and did some very expensive transfers for their level, they're probably going all in for another top 3 finish now that Greece is back in the top 15. They brought in CF Gray (from Watford), CM Pape Cheikh (from Lyon), LB Mazikou (from CSKA Sofia), LW Gervinho (from Trabzonspor), RB Odubajo (from QPR), CM Dabo (from Rizespor), LB Peersman (from PAS Giannina) and winger Camacho (from Sporting Lisbon). A lot of players left too: Kamara, Ndiaye, Sasha, Bertoglio, Sundgren, Ganea, Gama, Manos, Benalouane, Sakic.
German Burgos (yes, Simone's former assistant) has the task to build a team from scratch, and that's always difficult, but on paper Aris has one of the best-quality squads they ever had since their return to the top level of Greece. As usually with Aris, they rely on foreign players- in fact I dont think there's any Greek player in their starting 11 (which is a bit of a mystery so far). Burgos improved their team last year, but their two big issues remain: climincal finishing (they suffer from wasteful CFs for years) and the incompetent GK Cuesta at the goalposts (he is still there).
Luckily for Aris, Gomel looks like a very low obstacle for a new team still finding their feet and learning each other's game.
Panathinaikos (4th and Cup Winner) enters in the 3rd round, thus I will write about their transfer activity in 2 weeks.
The champions Olympiacos face Maccabi Haifa in the UCL while 2nd placed PAOK and 3rd placed Aris face Levski Sofia and Gomel in the UECL.
Here is a brief recap of their transfer activity so far and changes since the end of last season:
Olympiacos has brought in RB Vrsajlko (from Atletico Madrid), RB Avila (from Huddersfield), winger Zinckernagel (from Watford) and CF Kamara (from Aris). Wingers Onyekuru and Rony Lopes have left the club, as has RB Karbownik, while Olympiacos has a long list of players that are not part of the team but still haven't found a club to take them (including Semedo, Lala, Pepe, Fortounis and many others).
The activity so far has left most Olympiacos fans dissatisfied, because the club is coming from a very mediocre season with bad football, and Pedro Martins seems to become more and more defensive-minded in his philosophy after 4 years at the helm, and opting for players with characterestics that make them unpopular to the fans: see Onyekuru, Bruma, LB Reabchuk. He values athletic abilities and stamina more than technical skills and the pre-season has indicated that set-pieces are what he relies on for scoring this early in the season, with CB Cisse being a permanent threat from corners.
In addition to that, multiple failed transfers the last 2 years led to almost the entire scouting department to leave, and the owner himself and his son (!) are rumoured to be personally handling the transfers this year. The owner's media have made it clear that another "Ludogorets" won't be tolerated and Pedro Martins is assuring everyone that the team will be ready for the Qualifiers.
Many people will wonder, why this turmoil in a club that won the league easily and reached the EL Knock-Out Round? Welcome to Olympiacos. The league title is seen as the bare minimum, and the fans are craving a European deep run after almost a decade of reaching ELR32/ELR16. And of course the reactive football will never be popular with the fanbase.
Olympiacos is expected to play with Vaclik under the goalposts, Reabchuk on the left, Cisse and Sokratis or Manolas at CB, Vrsajlko on the right, Yann Mvila and Mady Camara in the centre with Aguibou Camara in front of them, Masouras and Zinckernagel on the wings and El Arabi in attack.
PAOK has brought in GK Kotarski (from Gorica), winger Quagliata (from Wanderers), midfielder Narey (from Fortuna Dusseldofr), CB Kargas (from PAS Giannina), LB Rafa Soares (from Guimaraes), CF Thomas (from Malaga), CB Nasberg (from Valerenga), CAM Andre Ricardo (from Famalicao) and CM Dantas (from Benfica). Many players left as well, including CBs Crespo and Varela, GK Paschalakis, CFs Akpom and Colak, winger Mitrita and LB Sidcley.
PAOK has a new sporting director as well, Portuguese Jose Boto. There is a change in the model and an attempt to make the squad a bit younger - last year the starting 11 had many players over the age of 30. It's a question mark how quickly they will band together and how good the new players are in comparison with the ones to left - at least for the first qualifying matches, where PAOK faces an issue at the CF position since Oliveira is injured.
The expected starting eleven for PAOK vs Levski isn't clear yet, but from what I see from the reporters, it will be something like that: Kotarski GK, Ingasson and Kargas CB, Rafa Soares and Sastre wing backs, Kurtic and Koutsias will be starters but the rest of the midfield is unclear from the friendlies so far, also because some starters are coming from injuries.
Aris has changed almost the whole team, and did some very expensive transfers for their level, they're probably going all in for another top 3 finish now that Greece is back in the top 15. They brought in CF Gray (from Watford), CM Pape Cheikh (from Lyon), LB Mazikou (from CSKA Sofia), LW Gervinho (from Trabzonspor), RB Odubajo (from QPR), CM Dabo (from Rizespor), LB Peersman (from PAS Giannina) and winger Camacho (from Sporting Lisbon). A lot of players left too: Kamara, Ndiaye, Sasha, Bertoglio, Sundgren, Ganea, Gama, Manos, Benalouane, Sakic.
German Burgos (yes, Simone's former assistant) has the task to build a team from scratch, and that's always difficult, but on paper Aris has one of the best-quality squads they ever had since their return to the top level of Greece. As usually with Aris, they rely on foreign players- in fact I dont think there's any Greek player in their starting 11 (which is a bit of a mystery so far). Burgos improved their team last year, but their two big issues remain: climincal finishing (they suffer from wasteful CFs for years) and the incompetent GK Cuesta at the goalposts (he is still there).
Luckily for Aris, Gomel looks like a very low obstacle for a new team still finding their feet and learning each other's game.
Panathinaikos (4th and Cup Winner) enters in the 3rd round, thus I will write about their transfer activity in 2 weeks.
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wannabeontop
- Senior Member
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Exciting stuff!
Would you be happy with an Oly-Fradi 3rd round tie - presuming both teams advance from next weeks' games? What percentages would you give for each team to go through in such case?
Would you be happy with an Oly-Fradi 3rd round tie - presuming both teams advance from next weeks' games? What percentages would you give for each team to go through in such case?
In Game of Thrones conquerors always say to the defeated side: "Bend the knee and you''ll live". As if they weren't alive right now.
I'm smarter than it shows. Just don't want to discourage anyone.
I'm smarter than it shows. Just don't want to discourage anyone.
Olympiacos will face Apollon Limassol in UCLQ3 if they eliminate Maccabi Haifa, and the loser of Ferencvaros/Slovan Bratislava in UELQ3 if they don't.
PAOK will face the winner of Velez Mostar/Hamrun Spartans in UECLQ3 if they eliminate Levski Sofia.
Aris will face the winner of Zira/Maccabi Tel Aviv in UECLQ3 if they eliminate Gomel.
Panathinaikos will face the winner of Saint Josephs/Slavia Praha in UECLQ3.
PAOK will face the winner of Velez Mostar/Hamrun Spartans in UECLQ3 if they eliminate Levski Sofia.
Aris will face the winner of Zira/Maccabi Tel Aviv in UECLQ3 if they eliminate Gomel.
Panathinaikos will face the winner of Saint Josephs/Slavia Praha in UECLQ3.
Lamia FC released Loukas Vyntra and Apostolos Vellios. Vyntra holds the record for oldest player appearing in the Greek first division. Vellios had started very promisingly and had made a great transfer from Iraklis to Everton when he was 19 years old, but he did not do that well afterwards (Blackpool, Lierse, Vestsjælland, Iraklis, Nottingham Forest, Waasland-Beveren, Atromitos, Ascoli, Academica Clinceni, Lamia). He has now signed with PEC Zwolle for 1+1 seasons.
Pure coincidence, nothing to see there folks!
Olympiakos most expensive transfer of the last 7 years (€5 mln.) just happens to be from OAris.
A team that was facing financial trouble, but now broke their own transfer record by selling the rights of a CF who scored 8 goals total last season.
Which enables them to do some seemingly expensive transfers of their own, despite failure after failure in UEFA competitions.
Add to that the fact that Olympiakos owner has a new webshop that is sponsoring 10 teams (out of 14 total) of the Greek league and they are indeed the clear favorite.
The FA decided that 2 teams will be promoted directly from Superleague 2 (the winners of the 2 groups) and a third one will enter play off against the 12th placed team of top league.
It is interesting because it counters the Superleague's proposal for the same system as the previous season in which the Group winners didn't promote directly and ultimately Veria failed to win promotion.
It is interesting because it counters the Superleague's proposal for the same system as the previous season in which the Group winners didn't promote directly and ultimately Veria failed to win promotion.
SuperLeague is going to the courts about this, so this isn't the end of the story. The SuperLeague and the Federation are about to clash in multiple topics this year, since SuperLeague voted Olympiacos owner Marinakis as its president (Panathinaikos and Aris voting for him) and the new Federation president had the support of AEK and the silent support of PAOK.TommyChat wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 15:34 The FA decided that 2 teams will be promoted directly from Superleague 2 (the winners of the 2 groups) and a third one will enter play off against the 12th placed team of top league.
It is interesting because it counters the Superleague's proposal for the same system as the previous season in which the Group winners didn't promote directly and ultimately Veria failed to win promotion.
You can always count on Greek football for backstage intrigue and drama.
An average to downright bad 1st week for Greek teams in Europe.
Olympiacos drew 1-1 away versus Maccabi Haifa and showed every problematic aspect of last year's team that had the fans pulling their hair despite winning the league comfortably and reaching their usual point in Europe (Europa League knockout round, Olympiacos oscillates between this round and the round of 16 usually). Very slow pace, very defensive mindset, a lot of players who are not technically skilled, very poor in creating anything, and not winning in the end. Pedro Martins blamed the humidity (!) for the poor performance, I guess we will see in the 2nd leg how true his statement was. There is growing resentment about both his tactics and the level of players that currently start for Olympiacos. Moment of truth next week for the champions.
PAOK lost 2-0 away to Levski Sofia. A disastrous result, with PAOK showing totally unprepared for playing a European knock-out match. Many new players, some of them untested, some of them a known lower-level quality (like CB Kargas who was terrible), not much cohesion, not great physical condition...generally, like it was a pre-season friendly. I cannot understand how PAOK could not see that they need to be much more ready than this in knock out European matches. They re trying to change the model and rebuild this season, but sacrifising Europe for it? I hope this isn't the case and they can turn it around, because Greece needs PAOK's seeded status in the Conference League in order to climb some positions and avoid some of the troublesome summer Qualifiers.
Aris beat Gomel 5-1 at home. Finally a good result, and finally a solid performance from Aris in Europe. The match started in the worst way, with an early goal from the Belarussians, but the new transfers of Aris in the attack showed their individual quality. Gray, Camacho, Palma together with Iturbe are a very interesting attacking line and without Aris playing anything fabulous, they were clinical (rare for Aris) and did their job against a weak opponent. Aris has a 2nd home match now (but without fans) and I hope they bring a 2nd win to Greece. They will need to improve, especially in defense, against Maccabi Tel Aviv. But Aris starts the season in high spirits and with high ambitions.
Olympiacos drew 1-1 away versus Maccabi Haifa and showed every problematic aspect of last year's team that had the fans pulling their hair despite winning the league comfortably and reaching their usual point in Europe (Europa League knockout round, Olympiacos oscillates between this round and the round of 16 usually). Very slow pace, very defensive mindset, a lot of players who are not technically skilled, very poor in creating anything, and not winning in the end. Pedro Martins blamed the humidity (!) for the poor performance, I guess we will see in the 2nd leg how true his statement was. There is growing resentment about both his tactics and the level of players that currently start for Olympiacos. Moment of truth next week for the champions.
PAOK lost 2-0 away to Levski Sofia. A disastrous result, with PAOK showing totally unprepared for playing a European knock-out match. Many new players, some of them untested, some of them a known lower-level quality (like CB Kargas who was terrible), not much cohesion, not great physical condition...generally, like it was a pre-season friendly. I cannot understand how PAOK could not see that they need to be much more ready than this in knock out European matches. They re trying to change the model and rebuild this season, but sacrifising Europe for it? I hope this isn't the case and they can turn it around, because Greece needs PAOK's seeded status in the Conference League in order to climb some positions and avoid some of the troublesome summer Qualifiers.
Aris beat Gomel 5-1 at home. Finally a good result, and finally a solid performance from Aris in Europe. The match started in the worst way, with an early goal from the Belarussians, but the new transfers of Aris in the attack showed their individual quality. Gray, Camacho, Palma together with Iturbe are a very interesting attacking line and without Aris playing anything fabulous, they were clinical (rare for Aris) and did their job against a weak opponent. Aris has a 2nd home match now (but without fans) and I hope they bring a 2nd win to Greece. They will need to improve, especially in defense, against Maccabi Tel Aviv. But Aris starts the season in high spirits and with high ambitions.
If the 1st week was "average to bad" for Greek teams, the 2nd week was disastrous.
Olympiacos managed to play even worse than in Haifa, concede an early goal, appear toothless and out of ideas, and crumbled after a 2nd goal suffering their worst ever European home defeat, 0-4 to Maccabi Haifa ! We're talking about a team playing in the Champions League for 20 years, and not even clubs like Bayern, PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. had achieved a 4 goal win against them in Piraeus. There's not much to say about the match, Olympiacos was several levels below where they should be, the fans were booing the team from HT, and booing individual players like Andreas Bouchalakis and Oleg Reabchuk as well.
This match signals Pedro Martins' end as Olympiacos coach after 4 years at the wheel, 3 league titles, 1 cup, 2 times reaching the EL Round of 16 and 2 times the EL Round of 32/Knock-out Round. The highlights of his stint were the 3-1 win vs Milan in EL Groups, the away win vs Arsenal (1-2) in EL Ro32, and the dominant performance of Olympiacos in the post-Covid break in June and July 2020 when they were the only team to appear professional after the break and steamroll the play-off derbies with ease.
But you'll notice none of these happened last year. After Ludogorets, Martins was the 2nd Olympiacos coach ever (after Ernesto Valverde) to be given the chance to continue after a European qualifying elimination. He had 1 year to change things, but he failed to change anything. Half of the key players were growing old, others were out of form, the new transfers never worked out, Martins beceame more and more conservative in his philosophy and hiding behind excuses (Covid cases, AFCON, disrupted pre-season, injuries). Despite all that, his contract was renewed, and...Olympiacos became even worse, as everyone saw vs Maccabi Haifa. And now the coach with the longest ever stint at the club (nobody else had stayed for 4 seasons in a row) is done.
And he's not leaving alone, Olympiacos owner is furious about the loss of CL money, the fact that he gets blame from part of the fans, and the continuous bad football. It's leaked that around 10 players will leave, and many will come together with the new coach.
There have been two announcements already (the players were signed before the Haifa match): CM Hwang Im-Beom from Seoul (former Rubin Kazan before the war) and LB Doron Leidner from Hapoel Tel Aviv.
Olympiacos now have to face Slovan in the EL Qualifiers amidst groundbreaking changes, to avoid a further disaster. Nobody knows who will coach the team on Wednesday, and the patience from the fans is exhausted - there's going to be booing and outrage from the 1st sign the matches doesn't go Olympiacos' way.
The Haifa fiasco might not hurt Greece in the long run, but Olympiacos needs to win this tie - the club is not cut out for playing their European future in late August in Conference League Play-Offs.
PAOK managed to not improve at all as well, showed the exact same problems they showerd in Sofia, and suffered a shocking and early elimination from Bulgaria's 4th team last year, Levski Sofia. If for Olympiacos the problem was that they did not change anything in a problematic structure, for PAOK it's the opposite. They are trying to renew their squad, with a new GM and new players. But these new players don't perform, some are downright bad (Kargas) or show they are bad till now (the GK Kotarski who gifted Levski a goal) or they're simply not ready for this level in July. PAOK barely managed to threaten Levski at all, even with the push from the crowd after 1-1, and then got 2 red cards for the cherry on top.
So far there is no word of Lucescu's position being in danger, since PAOK is not as demanding as Olympiacos when it comes to European early eliminations (at least history says so) but it's a financial loss for the club, and most important of all, it's a big blow to Greece, because PAOK was the only Conference League club seeded all the way. This is the kind of blunders that have Greece fighting for 15th while poorer leagues like Serbia and Norway fight for a direct CL spot.
Aris managed to beat Gomel again, this time 2-1, with another good performance (the score could easily be 5-1 again). The level of the opponent though is so low that we dont really know Aris' actual strength. I wrote about their massive changes and expensive transfers in the previous posts, they added AM Manu Garcia from Gijon since then with the club's most expensive transfer ever (around 3.5M). Aris unexpectedly became Greece's key performer after PAOK's elimination and Panathinaikos' tough draw: if they beat Maccabi Tel Aviv, they get their seeded spot in the Play-Offs and have a shot for Groups, and to keep Greece in the top 15 battle with a decent shot.
Aris still shows several weaknesses (especially in defense) and its squad could easily implode if the results don't go their way, Burgos being an explosive personality too. Let's hope that if it happens...it's later in the season, because Greece needs Aris to make it to Groups.
Panathinaikos returns to Europe after 5 years, and the draw wasn't kind to them, sending them against the very experienced Slavia Praha. The Greens finished 4th last year but were one win away from 2nd, and won the Cup beating PAOK in the Cup Final. The architect of their return to Europe is Ivan Jovanovic, the coach of APOEL's miracle run 10 years ago. His team last year was solid at the back, with a tight formation which produced good results against the other big teams but dropped many points against minnows. Well, that's not something to trouble them vs Slavia, where they enter as the outsider.
There have been many changes from last year's squad, and part of their fanbase is worried that the team would end up weakened, but the last 2 transfers have renewed enthusiasm: LW Verbic (from Dynamo Kyiv) and CF Sporar (from Sporting Lisbon). Joining is them is a thrid Slovenian, CM Cerin (from Nurnberg), CB Magnusson (from CSKA Moscow), LB Ganea (from Aris) and GK Lodygin (from PAS Giannina). Several players have also left the club: CB Velez, CM Ayoub, AM Gacinovic, AM Vital, Wingers Villafanez and Chatzigiovannis, DM Mauricio, LB Chatzitheodoridis and CF Macheda.
The friendlies of Panathinaikos had minimal goals, hinting that Jovanovic will treat the European matches with a defensive mindset. If Panathinaikos eliminates the Czechs, it will rejuvenate Greece's hopes in the Ranking, and will give them a massive boost towards the Groups. We're hoping for the best...
Olympiacos managed to play even worse than in Haifa, concede an early goal, appear toothless and out of ideas, and crumbled after a 2nd goal suffering their worst ever European home defeat, 0-4 to Maccabi Haifa ! We're talking about a team playing in the Champions League for 20 years, and not even clubs like Bayern, PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. had achieved a 4 goal win against them in Piraeus. There's not much to say about the match, Olympiacos was several levels below where they should be, the fans were booing the team from HT, and booing individual players like Andreas Bouchalakis and Oleg Reabchuk as well.
This match signals Pedro Martins' end as Olympiacos coach after 4 years at the wheel, 3 league titles, 1 cup, 2 times reaching the EL Round of 16 and 2 times the EL Round of 32/Knock-out Round. The highlights of his stint were the 3-1 win vs Milan in EL Groups, the away win vs Arsenal (1-2) in EL Ro32, and the dominant performance of Olympiacos in the post-Covid break in June and July 2020 when they were the only team to appear professional after the break and steamroll the play-off derbies with ease.
But you'll notice none of these happened last year. After Ludogorets, Martins was the 2nd Olympiacos coach ever (after Ernesto Valverde) to be given the chance to continue after a European qualifying elimination. He had 1 year to change things, but he failed to change anything. Half of the key players were growing old, others were out of form, the new transfers never worked out, Martins beceame more and more conservative in his philosophy and hiding behind excuses (Covid cases, AFCON, disrupted pre-season, injuries). Despite all that, his contract was renewed, and...Olympiacos became even worse, as everyone saw vs Maccabi Haifa. And now the coach with the longest ever stint at the club (nobody else had stayed for 4 seasons in a row) is done.
And he's not leaving alone, Olympiacos owner is furious about the loss of CL money, the fact that he gets blame from part of the fans, and the continuous bad football. It's leaked that around 10 players will leave, and many will come together with the new coach.
There have been two announcements already (the players were signed before the Haifa match): CM Hwang Im-Beom from Seoul (former Rubin Kazan before the war) and LB Doron Leidner from Hapoel Tel Aviv.
Olympiacos now have to face Slovan in the EL Qualifiers amidst groundbreaking changes, to avoid a further disaster. Nobody knows who will coach the team on Wednesday, and the patience from the fans is exhausted - there's going to be booing and outrage from the 1st sign the matches doesn't go Olympiacos' way.
The Haifa fiasco might not hurt Greece in the long run, but Olympiacos needs to win this tie - the club is not cut out for playing their European future in late August in Conference League Play-Offs.
PAOK managed to not improve at all as well, showed the exact same problems they showerd in Sofia, and suffered a shocking and early elimination from Bulgaria's 4th team last year, Levski Sofia. If for Olympiacos the problem was that they did not change anything in a problematic structure, for PAOK it's the opposite. They are trying to renew their squad, with a new GM and new players. But these new players don't perform, some are downright bad (Kargas) or show they are bad till now (the GK Kotarski who gifted Levski a goal) or they're simply not ready for this level in July. PAOK barely managed to threaten Levski at all, even with the push from the crowd after 1-1, and then got 2 red cards for the cherry on top.
So far there is no word of Lucescu's position being in danger, since PAOK is not as demanding as Olympiacos when it comes to European early eliminations (at least history says so) but it's a financial loss for the club, and most important of all, it's a big blow to Greece, because PAOK was the only Conference League club seeded all the way. This is the kind of blunders that have Greece fighting for 15th while poorer leagues like Serbia and Norway fight for a direct CL spot.
Aris managed to beat Gomel again, this time 2-1, with another good performance (the score could easily be 5-1 again). The level of the opponent though is so low that we dont really know Aris' actual strength. I wrote about their massive changes and expensive transfers in the previous posts, they added AM Manu Garcia from Gijon since then with the club's most expensive transfer ever (around 3.5M). Aris unexpectedly became Greece's key performer after PAOK's elimination and Panathinaikos' tough draw: if they beat Maccabi Tel Aviv, they get their seeded spot in the Play-Offs and have a shot for Groups, and to keep Greece in the top 15 battle with a decent shot.
Aris still shows several weaknesses (especially in defense) and its squad could easily implode if the results don't go their way, Burgos being an explosive personality too. Let's hope that if it happens...it's later in the season, because Greece needs Aris to make it to Groups.
Panathinaikos returns to Europe after 5 years, and the draw wasn't kind to them, sending them against the very experienced Slavia Praha. The Greens finished 4th last year but were one win away from 2nd, and won the Cup beating PAOK in the Cup Final. The architect of their return to Europe is Ivan Jovanovic, the coach of APOEL's miracle run 10 years ago. His team last year was solid at the back, with a tight formation which produced good results against the other big teams but dropped many points against minnows. Well, that's not something to trouble them vs Slavia, where they enter as the outsider.
There have been many changes from last year's squad, and part of their fanbase is worried that the team would end up weakened, but the last 2 transfers have renewed enthusiasm: LW Verbic (from Dynamo Kyiv) and CF Sporar (from Sporting Lisbon). Joining is them is a thrid Slovenian, CM Cerin (from Nurnberg), CB Magnusson (from CSKA Moscow), LB Ganea (from Aris) and GK Lodygin (from PAS Giannina). Several players have also left the club: CB Velez, CM Ayoub, AM Gacinovic, AM Vital, Wingers Villafanez and Chatzigiovannis, DM Mauricio, LB Chatzitheodoridis and CF Macheda.
The friendlies of Panathinaikos had minimal goals, hinting that Jovanovic will treat the European matches with a defensive mindset. If Panathinaikos eliminates the Czechs, it will rejuvenate Greece's hopes in the Ranking, and will give them a massive boost towards the Groups. We're hoping for the best...
Another week, another disaster for the Greek teams in Europe.
Olympiacos drew 1-1 at home vs Slovan Bratislava at home in Carlos Corberan's debut as the club's coach. The champions were terrible, much like against Maccabi Haifa, were threatened multiple times by Slovan, had GK Vaclik in a good die and almost everyone else in a mediocre or downright horrible one. LB Reabchuhk was once against ridiculed by the opponent's winger, CB Papastathopoulos gifted the Slovaks a goal, the midfield were clumsy and out of breath, the wingers were toothless. LW Masouras and CM Mady Camara were booed by the crowed this time. Olympiacos salvaged the draw with a late header of El Arabi from a corner kick (assisted by the other veteran, Valbuena). Frustration is growing among the fans because not only they see nothing changing in the last 2 weeks, but now it's insinuated that if the club doesn't make EL Groups, it's not gonna spend any significant money to improve this mess. The only saving grace for Olympiacos is that Slovan appears to be a bad team too.
Aris lost 0-2 to Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israel. A very naive approach to the match by German Burgos, who probably overestimated his team after the two easy wins against Gomel, and fielded a very risky attacking formation. Maccabi Tel Aviv had many chances to end the tie from the 1st leg, Cuesta saved most of them, Zahavi appeared to be toying with Aris defenders in the 2nd half, the Greek team was uncoordinated, toothless and immature. They missed a huge chance in the last moment of the game with Camacho though, which could have changed the balance of the tie. In theory Aris, can turn this around, but practically, it's almost impossible. Aris is not good defensively, even Gomel managed to scored against them in both matches, I can't imagine how Maccabi won't. And if that happens, they need 3 goals for extra time. It looks like a 4th consecutive qualifier campaign without reaching the play-offs for Aris, who have seen their path ended by Molde, Kolos and Astana so far...
Panathinaikos lost 0-2 to Slavia Praha in Czechia. Panathinaikos came out to play defense, as expected, and it worked for around 40 minutes. But French referee Rudy Bouquet made a grave error and left the greens with 10 men for a non-exsitent diving offense of Palacios, and Slavia took advantage of Panathinaikos' lack of concentration in the remaining minutes of the 1st half and scored. Slavia also got a red card early in the 2nd half, but Panathinaikos never found their footing, and the Czechs scored a 2nd goal. Like Aris, Panathinaikos has hopes in theory, but again, it looks a tough ask. Not because of defense this time, but because of the need to score 2 or 3 goals, which is not something that Jovanovic' team can easily do against teams of Slavia's level. Their return to Europe might be very brief....
Greece is on the verge of losing top 15 from August and hasn't even secured a team in Groups yet. Greek clubs show once again their complete incompetence to appear prepared for crucial matches in July, their refusal to acknowledge that the season doesn't start at August 20th with the league, but 1 or 1.5 month earlier, their willingness to hide behind excuses and their incompetence to grind out results when they aren't actually playing well. Next week will be crucial...
Olympiacos drew 1-1 at home vs Slovan Bratislava at home in Carlos Corberan's debut as the club's coach. The champions were terrible, much like against Maccabi Haifa, were threatened multiple times by Slovan, had GK Vaclik in a good die and almost everyone else in a mediocre or downright horrible one. LB Reabchuhk was once against ridiculed by the opponent's winger, CB Papastathopoulos gifted the Slovaks a goal, the midfield were clumsy and out of breath, the wingers were toothless. LW Masouras and CM Mady Camara were booed by the crowed this time. Olympiacos salvaged the draw with a late header of El Arabi from a corner kick (assisted by the other veteran, Valbuena). Frustration is growing among the fans because not only they see nothing changing in the last 2 weeks, but now it's insinuated that if the club doesn't make EL Groups, it's not gonna spend any significant money to improve this mess. The only saving grace for Olympiacos is that Slovan appears to be a bad team too.
Aris lost 0-2 to Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israel. A very naive approach to the match by German Burgos, who probably overestimated his team after the two easy wins against Gomel, and fielded a very risky attacking formation. Maccabi Tel Aviv had many chances to end the tie from the 1st leg, Cuesta saved most of them, Zahavi appeared to be toying with Aris defenders in the 2nd half, the Greek team was uncoordinated, toothless and immature. They missed a huge chance in the last moment of the game with Camacho though, which could have changed the balance of the tie. In theory Aris, can turn this around, but practically, it's almost impossible. Aris is not good defensively, even Gomel managed to scored against them in both matches, I can't imagine how Maccabi won't. And if that happens, they need 3 goals for extra time. It looks like a 4th consecutive qualifier campaign without reaching the play-offs for Aris, who have seen their path ended by Molde, Kolos and Astana so far...
Panathinaikos lost 0-2 to Slavia Praha in Czechia. Panathinaikos came out to play defense, as expected, and it worked for around 40 minutes. But French referee Rudy Bouquet made a grave error and left the greens with 10 men for a non-exsitent diving offense of Palacios, and Slavia took advantage of Panathinaikos' lack of concentration in the remaining minutes of the 1st half and scored. Slavia also got a red card early in the 2nd half, but Panathinaikos never found their footing, and the Czechs scored a 2nd goal. Like Aris, Panathinaikos has hopes in theory, but again, it looks a tough ask. Not because of defense this time, but because of the need to score 2 or 3 goals, which is not something that Jovanovic' team can easily do against teams of Slavia's level. Their return to Europe might be very brief....
Greece is on the verge of losing top 15 from August and hasn't even secured a team in Groups yet. Greek clubs show once again their complete incompetence to appear prepared for crucial matches in July, their refusal to acknowledge that the season doesn't start at August 20th with the league, but 1 or 1.5 month earlier, their willingness to hide behind excuses and their incompetence to grind out results when they aren't actually playing well. Next week will be crucial...
Cyprus league starts even later, but their teams don't seem to have such issues, indeed, can be even seen as punching above their weight sometimes. I wonder why. They're also willing to put themselves through playing in gruelling temperatures in the knowledge it'll hurt the other team more than them.
There are several differences:Lorric wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 21:27 Cyprus league starts even later, but their teams don't seem to have such issues, indeed, can be even seen as punching above their weight sometimes. I wonder why. They're also willing to put themselves through playing in gruelling temperatures in the knowledge it'll hurt the other team more than them.
1) Cyprus teams lack depth, thus playing Qualifiers when they don't have to play league matches is good for them.
2) Cyprus teams are used to playing in Qualifiers since forever. In Greece you still see the widespread mentality that playing 11 months out of 12 and starting in July is "brutal", "extreme circumstances", "disrupts the pre-season" etc etc. They refuse to adapt to modern football in which the old-style pre-season does not apply anymore and there are constant matches, crucial matches, from the start of the season.
3) In Greece there is a general consensus that Greek clubs should be able to beat teams like Levski Sofia or Kolos Kovalivka or Velez Mostar while playing blindfolded.
4) All the Greek teams have a mentality of "league first", even though they won't admit it. Thus the planning (even the poor one) is almost always revolving around when the league starts. There is too much animosity and too much at stake in their minds to not focus on the league.
5) Greek teams aren't "clutch" in general in knock-outs. They perform much better in Group Stages. First and foremost Olympiacos, but it applies to everyone to a certain degree. Even Asteras Tripolis was competitive in Groups. They're not very good at do or die matches, in which you do not have room to "correct" a bad performance. Put this year's PAOK and this year's Aris in EL Groups (which should be very tough for them since they struggle in ECL Qualifiers) and I'd bet you they wouldn't be punching bags.
Thanks for the explanations.Firnen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 21:39There are several differences:Lorric wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 21:27 Cyprus league starts even later, but their teams don't seem to have such issues, indeed, can be even seen as punching above their weight sometimes. I wonder why. They're also willing to put themselves through playing in gruelling temperatures in the knowledge it'll hurt the other team more than them.
1) Cyprus teams lack depth, thus playing Qualifiers when they don't have to play league matches is good for them.
2) Cyprus teams are used to playing in Qualifiers since forever. In Greece you still see the widespread mentality that playing 11 months out of 12 and starting in July is "brutal", "extreme circumstances", "disrupts the pre-season" etc etc. They refuse to adapt to modern football in which the old-style pre-season does not apply anymore and there are constant matches, crucial matches, from the start of the season.
3) In Greece there is a general consensus that Greek clubs should be able to beat teams like Levski Sofia or Kolos Kovalivka or Velez Mostar while playing blindfolded.
4) All the Greek teams have a mentality of "league first", even though they won't admit it. Thus the planning (even the poor one) is almost always revolving around when the league starts. There is too much animosity and too much at stake in their minds to not focus on the league.
5) Greek teams aren't "clutch" in general in knock-outs. They perform much better in Group Stages. First and foremost Olympiacos, but it applies to everyone to a certain degree. Even Asteras Tripolis was competitive in Groups. They're not very good at do or die matches, in which you do not have room to "correct" a bad performance. Put this year's PAOK and this year's Aris in EL Groups (which should be very tough for them since they struggle in ECL Qualifiers) and I'd bet you they wouldn't be punching bags.
Do you think, barring turnarounds, that this season combined with other defeats will be enough to beat 3) out of them?
The league first thing though probably isn't going to be overcome. But do you think they'll be able to modify the way they approach the qualifiers? Certainly there are plenty of players around now used to putting themselves through the cycle of crunch qualifiers, domestics and shortened off seasons.
I don't have much hope. If it was to happen, it would have already happened years ago. Sometimes the results will be better because e.g. some coaches will deal with it better, or a team will be more or less ready with last year's players without needing much improvement.Lorric wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 22:19Thanks for the explanations.Firnen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 21:39There are several differences:Lorric wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 21:27 Cyprus league starts even later, but their teams don't seem to have such issues, indeed, can be even seen as punching above their weight sometimes. I wonder why. They're also willing to put themselves through playing in gruelling temperatures in the knowledge it'll hurt the other team more than them.
1) Cyprus teams lack depth, thus playing Qualifiers when they don't have to play league matches is good for them.
2) Cyprus teams are used to playing in Qualifiers since forever. In Greece you still see the widespread mentality that playing 11 months out of 12 and starting in July is "brutal", "extreme circumstances", "disrupts the pre-season" etc etc. They refuse to adapt to modern football in which the old-style pre-season does not apply anymore and there are constant matches, crucial matches, from the start of the season.
3) In Greece there is a general consensus that Greek clubs should be able to beat teams like Levski Sofia or Kolos Kovalivka or Velez Mostar while playing blindfolded.
4) All the Greek teams have a mentality of "league first", even though they won't admit it. Thus the planning (even the poor one) is almost always revolving around when the league starts. There is too much animosity and too much at stake in their minds to not focus on the league.
5) Greek teams aren't "clutch" in general in knock-outs. They perform much better in Group Stages. First and foremost Olympiacos, but it applies to everyone to a certain degree. Even Asteras Tripolis was competitive in Groups. They're not very good at do or die matches, in which you do not have room to "correct" a bad performance. Put this year's PAOK and this year's Aris in EL Groups (which should be very tough for them since they struggle in ECL Qualifiers) and I'd bet you they wouldn't be punching bags.
Do you think, barring turnarounds, that this season combined with other defeats will be enough to beat 3) out of them?
The league first thing though probably isn't going to be overcome. But do you think they'll be able to modify the way they approach the qualifiers? Certainly there are plenty of players around now used to putting themselves through the cycle of crunch qualifiers, domestics and shortened off seasons.
But an organized plan to change the approach? I doubt it.
The only solution I see is for the league to start at least 2 weeks earlier, but then you stumble upon the obstacle that the TV channels dont want that, because they believe (probably correctly) that not many people in Greece watch football in the summer, especially in early August which is the period when most go on holidays. And TV channels can pretty much dictate what they want, since they are the main providers of money for the clubs.
I'd also say that it is a general mentality in Greece that summer is for holidays, islands and beaches, and generally not made for club football. Many many fans are moaning about UEFA and how wrong it is to have your European season determined in July. The stadiums are half filled in comparison with e.g. October, even people working at the clubs have this "relaxed" mentality. It might seem not important, but add this to the whole late start of the league, the fact that Greek clubs (in contrast with Cypriots) dont like playing in the heat and go to Austria and Poland for pre-season and mostly train at night when they are back in Greece, it creates a combo that adds on top of the pile of why they rarely show up at the necessary level in the summer.