Battle for important ranking positions 2023-24

[babaluj1]

What to say about Round of 16 CL? The only real surprise is the relegation of Inter, who dominates Serie A. Italia 0/3, a bad draw, and their luck turned their backs. Germany 2/3, Bayern and Dortmund passed as expected, Leipzig was close to a surprise, but was unlucky. England 2/2, great draw, expected passage, and penalties on Arsenal's side. Spain 3/4 did well, it could have easily happened that both Real and Atletico were eliminated. France, routine passage of PSG.

[babaluj1]

Country coefficients 2024
1.ITA (4/7) 16,671
2. GER (4/7) 15,928
3.ENG/6/8) 15,000
4. FRA (3/6) 14.416
5.ESP (4/8) 14.187
6.CZE (3/4) 13,000
Although Italy was left without all 3 representatives in the Round of 16 CL, it still has the best chance for the Top 2 places. Roma is certainly in the quarter-finals, but any new elimination of Italian clubs could cost them dearly. Atalanta-Sporting (1:1), Slavia-Milan (2:4) and Fiorentina-Maccabi Haifa (4:3) are still playing today.
For Germany and England, the West Ham United-Freiburg (0:1) match could be decisive in the fight for the Top 2 places. There is also Bayer-Qarabag, where the Germans must not screw up. Liverpool is certainly in the quarter-finals of EL, while Brighton has already been eliminated. For the English, Aston Villa vs Ajax (0:0) is still playing and they are looking for a passage there.
The French already have 3 safe quarter-finalists, apart from PSG in CL, Villareal-Marseille (0:4) and Lille-Sturm (3:0) are still playing.
The Spaniards still only have a theoretical chance for the Top 2 places, and for that they definitely need Villarreal's victory over Marseille and the Spanish CL final. There are also theoretical chances for the Czech Republic, which needs the passage of Slavia vs Milan (2:4), and the passage of Viktoria vs Servette (0:0).

[offside]

Italy: 0 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 5 CL spots in 2024-25.

Spain: 3 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 4 CL spots in 2024-25.

I wrote something similar in the other thread. Honestly, I am not too enthusiast of this new rule of European Performance Spots (extra CLGS spot for the two associations with the highest country coefficient in the previous season), I would rather give these two extra direct CLGS spots to the associations ranked 6th and 7th (currently the Netherlands and Portugal) in the 5 years ranking (and re-balance the access list for the CLQRs).

[Sagy]

Italy: 0 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 5 CL spots in 2024-25.

Spain: 3 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 4 CL spots in 2024-25.

I wrote something similar in the other thread. Honestly, I am not too enthusiast of this new rule of European Performance Spots (extra CLGS spot for the two associations with the highest country coefficient in the previous season), I would rather give these two extra direct CLGS spots to the associations ranked 6th and 7th (currently the Netherlands and Portugal) in the 5 years ranking (and re-balance the access list for the CLQRs).

You are absolutely right.

Can you imagine Roma winning the UEL and finishing 6th or lower in the league. Italy will have 6 teams in UCL (1/6th of all teams) with no representation in the 1/4 finals of UCL this year.

[Lyonnais]

I have a question please.

If Liverpool or Leverkusen win the Europa League this season (or any other team already qualified to the next CL through their domestic league), will France 4th team be directly qualified for the next CL, similar as previous years, or has it changed?

[amirbachar]

Italy: 0 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 5 CL spots in 2024-25.

Spain: 3 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 4 CL spots in 2024-25.

And yet all 3 teams you mentioned are currently qualified.
Europa league results are actually much more indicative on who deserves the extra CL spot, since these are the teams to benefit.

[bert.kassies]

I have a question please.

If Liverpool or Leverkusen win the Europa League this season (or any other team already qualified to the next CL through their domestic league), will France 4th team be directly qualified for the next CL, similar as previous years, or has it changed?

It has changed. In that case the empty spot in CL-GS is goes to the club with the highest ranking of all clubs in the CL qualifying rounds.

[offside]

Europa league results are actually much more indicative on who deserves the extra CL spot, since these are the teams to benefit.

True. I have been thinking about that. However the access list makes a too big jump between the 5th association (3 CLGS direct spots + 1 CLQRs spot) and the 7th (1 CLGS direct spot + 1 CLQRs spot): associations ranked 6th and 7th deserve an extra CLGS direct spot, and instead, under this new rule, it is not so likely to happen.

[Lyonnais]

I have a question please.

If Liverpool or Leverkusen win the Europa League this season (or any other team already qualified to the next CL through their domestic league), will France 4th team be directly qualified for the next CL, similar as previous years, or has it changed?

It has changed. In that case the empty spot in CL-GS is goes to the club with the highest ranking of all clubs in the CL qualifying rounds.

Ah yes. Thanks Bert

[eye]

Italy: 0 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 5 CL spots in 2024-25.

Spain: 3 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 4 CL spots in 2024-25.

I wrote something similar in the other thread. Honestly, I am not too enthusiast of this new rule of European Performance Spots (extra CLGS spot for the two associations with the highest country coefficient in the previous season), I would rather give these two extra direct CLGS spots to the associations ranked 6th and 7th (currently the Netherlands and Portugal) in the 5 years ranking (and re-balance the access list for the CLQRs).

It is wrong to focus just on CL. The extra slot will be given to the 5th ranked club of the league which currently takes parts at EL where Italy might have 3 clubs at QF while Spain 0. So yes Italy deserves more a 5th club at CL. UEFA rankings are designed to award the depth of league which is correct in my opinion.
The EPS are really something nice and somehow correct a mistake at the spot allocation. The top 4 countries had no real interest at rankings since all of them had exactly the same spots and are so far away from rest countries that even if you remove their best season from the 5 years rankings they would still be at top 4. Last seasons England was by far at the top, few years ago Spain was by far at top but still all top 4 countries had exactly the same spots which is a huge mistake for me since you are making rankings irrelevant at these countries. With EPS the rankings becomes interesting for these countries too. I would prefer instead of them one spot to be given to top country of rankings and the other to 7th ranked but I also like the competition for these 2 spots and the small chances a non top 4 country has to get an extra CL spot.

[offside]

Italy: 0 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 5 CL spots in 2024-25.

Spain: 3 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 4 CL spots in 2024-25.

I wrote something similar in the other thread. Honestly, I am not too enthusiast of this new rule of European Performance Spots (extra CLGS spot for the two associations with the highest country coefficient in the previous season), I would rather give these two extra direct CLGS spots to the associations ranked 6th and 7th (currently the Netherlands and Portugal) in the 5 years ranking (and re-balance the access list for the CLQRs).

It is wrong to focus just on CL. The extra slot will be given to the 5th ranked club of the league which currently takes parts at EL where Italy might have 3 clubs at QF while Spain 0. So yes Italy deserves more a 5th club at CL. UEFA rankings are designed to award the depth of league which is correct in my opinion.
The EPS are really something nice and somehow correct a mistake at the spot allocation. The top 4 countries had no real interest at rankings since all of them had exactly the same spots and are so far away from rest countries that even if you remove their best season from the 5 years rankings they would still be at top 4. Last seasons England was by far at the top, few years ago Spain was by far at top but still all top 4 countries had exactly the same spots which is a huge mistake for me since you are making rankings irrelevant at these countries. With EPS the rankings becomes interesting for these countries too. I would prefer instead of them one spot to be given to top country of rankings and the other to 7th ranked but I also like the competition for these 2 spots and the small chances a non top 4 country has to get an extra CL spot.

Good reading, interesting points.
As I said, I'm not too enthusiast about it (EPS), but I can live with it and I understand that others may have other, interesting, opinions about it.

[Lyonnais]

I agree with this too. We all know that the spot allocation is not 100% driven on performance metrics but rather on money issues, but this makes sense.
I however would have given only one spot to the top country of the former season and give an additional spot to the teams coming from the qualifying rounds.

[Tazmania]

I would have given both EPSs to the Champions qualifying path, increasing the number of champions qualifying via this route from 4 to 7 instead of from 4 to 5, thereby having 18 champions in CL league phase (assuming the CL TH re-qualifies via their domestic league).

One thing they did get right was to give one additional place to the third club from the country ranked fifth because it was too much of a cliff-edge to go from 4 automatic places to 2 automatic places and one Q3 NC place.

[matt]

Italy: 0 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 5 CL spots in 2024-25.

Spain: 3 teams in CL 2023-24 quarterfinals, but most probably with 4 CL spots in 2024-25.

And yet all 3 teams you mentioned are currently qualified.
Europa league results are actually much more indicative on who deserves the extra CL spot, since these are the teams to benefit.

I see valid arguments for both proposals (the current rules or considering the competitions separately like @ultra2013 proposed in the CL round of 16 thread).
A third route (a middle way) can be to increase bonus points for reaching the CL round of 16 + CL quarterfinals and so on, or decrease bonus points in the EL/ECL.

[Overgame]

And, somehow, Israel is out and Greece has still a chance of being 15th. And Czech Republic for 10th.

For the top 2 of 23/24:

Italy: 2 wins 1 draw 1 loss + 3 bonus -> 8/7 -> 17.714
3EL 1ECL

Germany: 1 win 1 loss + 1 bonus -> 3/7 -> 16.357
2CL 1EL

England: 4 wins + 2 bonus -> 10/8 -> 16.250
2CL 2EL 1ECL

France: 1 draw 1 loss + 1 bonus -> 2/6 -> 14.750
1CL 1EL 1ECL

Spain: 1 win -> 2/8 -> 14.437
3CL

Spain is out, France is almost out. Germany has a small chance if they can kick italian or english teams in quarters. England has a good chance if they don't crumble and Italy has almost secured the top 2.