FIFA Club World Cup

[matt]

A quadriennal FIFA Club World Cup will be a competition of the utmost importance, I'd say even more important than the UCL, which is an annual competition (though not financialwise), so if my team won the CWC, I wouldn't mind if they don't win nothing the following season.

Not sure i can agree. You are not considering the fact that 20 teams will not come from UEFA and will hardly be a match for most European teams, given that the strongest ones will take part. I suspect that the average quality of every CL edition (32 teams) is higher than what will be at the CWC (32 teams).

Similarly, in FWC there are some teams that hardly have the quality of any team in a Euro (Trinidad and Tobago, Togo, Qatar, North Korea, etc.). But still, the World Cup is the World Cup.

Yes but, (i added it later in my previous post) in my opinion the gap between european club football and the rest of the world is considerably larger than in nt football.

[barracuda]

New potential FIFA calculation principle for the 4-year ranking (Club World Cup):https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie-A/ ... refresh_ce

And conveniently under these new FIFA rankings Barcelona look well positioned to qualify instead of Atletico with Ajax in 12th place bumping Salzburg out.

Salzburg currently has 44 points in this system, with a win (3 points) in the next matches they'd be equal with Ajax.

[Tazmania]

Definitely true that the gap between Europe and the rest is wider in club football; it is not inconceivable that the first edition will feature all UEFA semifinals.

[max tre]

New potential FIFA calculation principle for the 4-year ranking (Club World Cup):https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie-A/ ... refresh_ce

If I didn't make any mistake (feel free to correct me), these are the two scenarios:


https://prnt.sc/VGC_sPXNOYwh

The tie-breaker is just my assumption. Remaining clubs can qualify only by winning CL 23/24.

At this point, it really should be:

• Manchester City and Chelsea
• Real Madrid and one of Barcelona / Atletico Madrid
• Bayern Munich and one of Borussia Dortmund / Leipzig (Dortmund ahead in both rankings)
• PSG
• Inter and Jxxentus / Milan / Napoli (the latter two would probably need to reach the QFs)
• Porto and Benfica
• one of Ajax / Salzburg (or some Arsenal / Newcastle / Man. Utd winning the CL this season)

[max tre]

At this point, it really should be:

• Manchester City and Chelsea
• Real Madrid and one of Barcelona / Atletico Madrid
• Bayern Munich and one of Borussia Dortmund / Leipzig (Dortmund ahead in both rankings)
• PSG
• Inter and Jxxentus / Milan / Napoli (the latter two would probably need to reach the QFs)
• Porto and Benfica
• one of Ajax / Salzburg (or some Arsenal / Newcastle / Man. Utd winning the CL this season)

Spanish battle:

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
Barcelona    48    59
Atletico M.  53	   54
Sevilla      42    47

German one:

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
B. Dortmund  59    65
Leipzig      54	   61

Italian one:

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
Jxxentus     47    52
Milan        39	   42
Napoli       33    38

Last spot:

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
Ajax         39    47
Salzburg     39	   44
S. Donetsk   33    42

[Ogiman]

You could even put in Lepizig in UEFA at 59 as they secured 5 bonus points for reaching the knockouts.

[max tre]

You could even put in Lepizig in UEFA at 59 as they secured 5 bonus points for reaching the knockouts.

Yeah, that's right

[max tre]

At this point, it really should be:

• Manchester City and Chelsea
• Real Madrid and one of Barcelona / Atletico Madrid
• Bayern Munich and one of Borussia Dortmund / Leipzig
• PSG
• Inter and one of Jxxentus / Milan / Napoli
• Porto
• two of Benfica / Ajax / Salzburg / Shakhtar Donetsk (or whoever wins the CL this season)

Spanish battle:

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
Barcelona    48    59
Atletico M.  53	   54
Sevilla      42    47

German one:

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
B. Dortmund  59    65
Leipzig      59Q   61

Italian one:

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
Jxxentus     47    52
Milan        39	   42
Napoli       34    39

Last spot(s):

Code: Select all

            UEFA  FIFA
Ajax         39    47
Salzburg     39	   44
S. Donetsk   33    42

Q = UEFA bonus points for reaching the KO phase already taken into account

Also, with Salzburg (39-44) and Benfica (49-49) unable to collect more than 4-6 points, Porto (59-66) should be mathematically in.

[ththth10]

Personally I do not think there is a 'need' for this Club World Cup tournament in this shape or form.

But regarding the methods of qualification:

I see many flaws. But let me just mention one. Let's just focus on the 'sub top' of Europe here for now. So not the Top 4 leagues. Maybe not even France.

Countries like Portugal and Netherlands tend to have different champions so now and then. Other countries do not.
So what if a sub top country sees the same club winning its league (almost) every year? Then this team will gather more CL points (FIFA only uses CL points) then these teams from a stronger league that tend to have different clubs becoming champions...

What do others think?

[Sagy]

Personally I do not think there is a 'need' for this Club World Cup tournament in this shape or form.

But regarding the methods of qualification:

I see many flaws. But let me just mention one. Let's just focus on the 'sub top' of Europe here for now. So not the Top 4 leagues. Maybe not even France.

Countries like Portugal and Netherlands tend to have different champions so now and then. Other countries do not.
So what if a sub top country sees the same club winning its league (almost) every year? Then this team will gather more CL points (FIFA only uses CL points) then these teams from a stronger league that tend to have different clubs becoming champions...

What do others think?

The “stronger leagues” get multiple teams in the CL so it’s not enough for the club that you are concerned about to not be champions. They need to finish 4th or lower (5th & 6th), 3rd or lower (7th -15th). That type of team is not one we need to be concerned about missing the CWC.

[eye]

CWC seems like a different CL. Instead of having some decent european clubs (Eg Porto, Benfica, Ajax, PSV etc) that might qualify to top 16 there will be clubs from South America and instead of having lower level clubs with few chances to qualify at top 16 (Eg Young Boys, Red Star, Olympiakos, Dinamo Zagreb etc) we will have clubs from Asia, Africa, Oceania and North America. So I don't really see the purpose of such competition except for top clubs to make more money. Still top players will spend one more summer without rest. I think such competition would have more sense 20-30 years ago when South America's clubs were stronger.

As for the qualification I think FIFA should use same method for all confederations. Actually they should have announced this method the day they had announced the competition but we are only few months before the end of qualification and still noone knows how a club will qualify which is unacceptable.

In my opinion there are 2 ways for FIFA to follow. Either create a ranking system based on the results at the top competition of each confederation and pick the top clubs or pick clubs based on their success to the top competitions (take winners, then finalists, then semifinalists etc). Although most FIFA will use a combination of these ways and pick only winners and rest clubs based on a ranking system. Personally I don't like this mix

[Lubomir25]

Personally I do not think there is a 'need' for this Club World Cup tournament in this shape or form.

But regarding the methods of qualification:

I see many flaws. But let me just mention one. Let's just focus on the 'sub top' of Europe here for now. So not the Top 4 leagues. Maybe not even France.

Countries like Portugal and Netherlands tend to have different champions so now and then. Other countries do not.
So what if a sub top country sees the same club winning its league (almost) every year? Then this team will gather more CL points (FIFA only uses CL points) then these teams from a stronger league that tend to have different clubs becoming champions...

What do others think?

So you want to punish clubs for continuing to win things rather than let teams in who finish 2nd every year?

[max tre]

Just for the sake of it, I did some computations for South America too.

Palmeiras, Flamengo and Fluminense are already in as Libertadores winners. Other Brazilian clubs will need to win Libertadores 2024 in order to qualify - and so I left them out of the ranking.

Code: Select all

River Plate      ARG   63Q
Boca Juniors     ARG   58
-----------------------------
Olimpia          PAR   51
-----------------------------
Indep. del Valle ECU   46Q
Racing           ARG   43
Nacional         URU   43
Cerro Porteno    PAR   42Q
Velez            ARG   41
...                    ...

Q = 5 points for qualifying to Libertadores 2024 already taken into account
Of course, some Argentinians (and possibly others too) will soon be unable to qualify for it and could be deleted in advance.

[amirbachar]

Just for the sake of it, I did some computations for South America too.

Palmeiras, Flamengo and Fluminense are already in as Libertadores winners. Other Brazilian clubs will need to win Libertadores 2024 in order to qualify - and so I left them out of the ranking.

Code: Select all

River Plate      ARG   63Q
Boca Juniors     ARG   58
-----------------------------
Olimpia          PAR   51
-----------------------------
Indep. del Valle ECU   46Q
Racing           ARG   43
Nacional         URU   43
Cerro Porteno    PAR   42Q
Velez            ARG   41
...                    ...

Q = 5 points for qualifying to Libertadores 2024 already taken into account
Of course, some Argentinians (and possibly others too) will soon be unable to qualify for it and could be deleted in advance.

Wow, thanks, I appriciate the info, Boca is in real danger of not qualifying to Libertadores and then maybe also to FIFA CWC.

[max tre]

Just for the sake of it, I did some computations for South America too.

Palmeiras, Flamengo and Fluminense are already in as Libertadores winners. Other Brazilian clubs will need to win Libertadores 2024 in order to qualify - and so I left them out of the ranking.

Code: Select all

River Plate      ARG   63Q
Boca Juniors     ARG   58
-----------------------------
Olimpia          PAR   51
-----------------------------
Indep. del Valle ECU   46Q
Racing           ARG   43
Nacional         URU   43
Cerro Porteno    PAR   42Q
Velez            ARG   41
...                    ...

Q = 5 points for qualifying to Libertadores 2024 already taken into account
Of course, some Argentinians (and possibly others too) will soon be unable to qualify for it and could be deleted in advance.

Wow, thanks, I appriciate the info, Boca is in real danger of not qualifying to Libertadores and then maybe also to FIFA CWC.

If I got it right:
- the can win the Copa Argentina (semifinal on 22-Nov against Estudiantes), which gives a Libertadores berth
- they can't win the Copa de la Liga (another berth) as they can't survive the group stage, with 1 game to spare (29-Nov against Godoy Cruz)
- if they can't win the Copa Argentina, they must win this last game in order to have a chance of getting top 6 in the aggregate table and hope some cup berths will be redistributed.

Similarly:
- Racing can qualify to Libertadores 2024 only by winning the Copa de la Liga, and they are alredy qualified to QFs
- Velez too can qualify only by winning the Copa de la Liga, but in order to survive the group stage they need to beat Colon + hope that none of Banfield, Rosario Central and Instituto win their last match(es)
- Argentinos Juniors are already out
- the next Argentinian club in the ranking is Estudiantes (23 pts), which has still a couple of way to qualify