2024/25 access list

[dnina10]

https://twitter.com/dpnina10/status/178 ... UqPVg&s=19

Important thread on rebalancing that should answer everyone's questions.

@bert.kassies am tagging you in particular

[bert.kassies]

https://twitter.com/dpnina10/status/178 ... UqPVg&s=19

Important thread on rebalancing that should answer everyone's questions.

@bert.kassies am tagging you in particular

Interesting, but not too much different from what I wrote. And where it differs I see no reason to doubt the info that I got from private communication. Since both our info is from non-public sources we can not do much else then to wait for the result.

[dnina10]

https://twitter.com/dpnina10/status/178 ... UqPVg&s=19

Important thread on rebalancing that should answer everyone's questions.

@bert.kassies am tagging you in particular

Interesting, but not too much different from what I wrote. And where it differs I see no reason to doubt the info that I got from private communication. Since both our info is from non-public sources we can not do much else then to wait for the result.

The information I got in the majority of that thread came directly from UEFA. Thankfully, all our rebalancing questions have been answered. Only thing that hasn't been official yet is what would happen if Club Brugge is the ECL TH and qualifies for the ECL play-in match in Belgium. Most likely, the play-in match would not be played, but just waiting confirmation on that

[TommyChat]

If next season's EFL Cup winner finishes 15th and England wins EPS who gets moved up to EL?
The LC-W or the 6th (or 7th) in the league who wouldn't even qualify for Europe without EPS?

Edit: from the regulations it seems that the club that wouldn't qualify for Europe gets to UECL unless this NA doesn't have an ECL spot due to TH rebalancing, so it should be EFL Cup winner in EL. But LC-W is a special case so I'm still not sure.

[Sagy]

If next season's EFL Cup winner finishes 15th and England wins EPS who gets moved up to EL?
The LC-W or the 6th (or 7th) in the league who wouldn't even qualify for Europe without EPS?

Edit: from the regulations it seems that the club that wouldn't qualify for Europe gets to UECL unless this NA doesn't have an ECL spot due to TH rebalancing, so it should be EFL Cup winner in EL. But LC-W is a special case so I'm still not sure.

I think that we might be making the EPS more complicated than UEFA intend them to be. After reading whatever I could find, I think that the way it is intended to work is.
1) do the allocation for each country as if EPS doesn’t exist
2) do all the needed rebalancing
3) look at the list of teams that qualified to Europe from a country that got an EPS spot.
3.a) Find the top team (based on league ranking) that didn’t qualify to CL league stage and move them to CL league stage
3.b) move each of the teams below it in the league to the European spot vacated by the team above them in the league standing
4) take the team that just missed qualifying for Europe and put them in the last European spot that was vacated.

[eye]

Another weird thing I noticed at regulations is at the rebalancing of EL

3.06 of CL regulations
"In the event of any other vacancies, and further knock-on effects in the UEFA Europa League and/or UEFA Conference League, priority is given to the best ranked club(s) in the UEFA Champions League or the domestic cup winner(s) in the UEFA Europa League and/or UEFA Conference League (or the club(s) replacing it if it qualifies for the UEFA Champions League) of the association ranked highest in the access list for the previous round of the corresponding path."

3.11 of EL regulations
"In the event of any other vacancies, and further knock-on effects in the UEFA Conference League, priority is given to the best ranked club(s) or the cup winner(s) (or the club(s) replacing it if it qualifies for the UEFA Champions League) of the association ranked highest in the access list for the previous round of the corresponding path."

At the paragraph of CL regulations is stated that CWs have priority at EL rebalancing while at the paragraph of EL is stated that priority have CW or best ranked clubs. I assume that by "the best ranked club(s)" they mean best ranked in their domestic league and not best ranked based on coefficients cause otherwise the EL's paragraph doesn't make sense at all.

So if there are knock-on effects in the EL due to CL rebalancing only CWs that part at EL's rebalancing. The only knock-on effect I can see is the case where 2 instead of 3 clubs are dropping from CL-Q2nc at EL-Q3 and there aren't even CWs at EL-Q2 So most likely they will create one more pair at EL-Q2 by promoting CWs from Q1.

The paragraph of EL's regulations must be for the rest reasons which are bans and CL-W and or EL-W have qualified to EL. So in this case the clubs of EL-Q2 may be promoted to EL-Q3 since based at EL's regulations this can happen. I am also not sure if the case of CL-W and/or EL-W have qualified to EL so the country has one less club at EL is not considered knock-on effect since there is mention about this case at CLs regulations

There is also one more weird thing to me. If we have rebalancing due to ECL-W then at EL-Q1 will be promoted CW(s) from ECL. At the rebalancing of paragraph 3.11 of EL regulations there is no mention about promoting CWs from ECL so only clubs from EL-Q1 will be promoted to EL-Q2. I really don't understand why in one case they are promoting clubs from ECL while they don''t do the same at the other case.

[perica]

I am not sure that speculations about 6 teams from Germany/Italy are completely true. Actually they are true if Borussia/Roma win their respective tournaments this season, but finish domestic championship below 5th position. In such case, their countries will already have 5 representatives (because of EPS) + Borussia/Roma as Champions/Europa League title holder.

But if Borussia wins Champions League and finishes 5th in Bundesliga, I don't see why would Germany get an extra spot. Position 5 means that EPS has already been used and it is taken by Borussia who has already qualified as Champions League title holder. That is equal scenario as they finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Or PSG finishes at top 4 of Ligue 1 or Real at top 4 of La Liga. If a title holder qualifies for the group stage thru domestic competition, it never opens a new spot for the best ranked team from domestic league not already qualified.

If Borussia finishes at position 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. that is another story. If they finish below 8th place, then Germany will even be represented by 9 teams next season. All regulations state following: if title holder of any competition qualified for Europe, then number of teams from their country keeps unchanged. Only change can be applied for switching from one competition to another (like Villarreal 2021, promoted to CL as EL winners leaving UECL without Spanish team that season).

EPS updates default access list of the association by shifting places below regular CL group stage berths. In German example that means 5th placed team is promoted to CL GS, 6th placed team is promoted to EL GS, while 7th placed team enters Conference League play-off. Of course, I am talking apart of Cup Winner. Nevertheless, EPS will increase number of total representatives by 1, regardless of champions league title holder. If title holder is any of those 8 teams, then total number stays unchanged. Otherwise, it will be increased up to 9. Even, if both Champions and Europa League title holder come from Germany and finish below 8th place, then Germany will be represented by 10 teams!

[ultra2013]

I am not sure that speculations about 6 teams from Germany/Italy are completely true. Actually they are true if Borussia/Roma win their respective tournaments this season, but finish domestic championship below 5th position. In such case, their countries will already have 5 representatives (because of EPS) + Borussia/Roma as Champions/Europa League title holder.

But if Borussia wins Champions League and finishes 5th in Bundesliga, I don't see why would Germany get an extra spot. Position 5 means that EPS has already been used and it is taken by Borussia who has already qualified as Champions League title holder. That is equal scenario as they finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Or PSG finishes at top 4 of Ligue 1 or Real at top 4 of La Liga. If a title holder qualifies for the group stage thru domestic competition, it never opens a new spot for the best ranked team from domestic league not already qualified.

If Borussia finishes at position 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. that is another story. If they finish below 8th place, then Germany will even be represented by 9 teams next season. All regulations state following: if title holder of any competition qualified for Europe, then number of teams from their country keeps unchanged. Only change can be applied for switching from one competition to another (like Villarreal 2021, promoted to CL as EL winners leaving UECL without Spanish team that season).

EPS updates default access list of the association by shifting places below regular CL group stage berths. In German example that means 5th placed team is promoted to CL GS, 6th placed team is promoted to EL GS, while 7th placed team enters Conference League play-off. Of course, I am talking apart of Cup Winner. Nevertheless, EPS will increase number of total representatives by 1, regardless of champions league title holder. If title holder is any of those 8 teams, then total number stays unchanged. Otherwise, it will be increased up to 9. Even, if both Champions and Europa League title holder come from Germany and finish below 8th place, then Germany will be represented by 10 teams!

It was open to interpretation. But several german media couldn't wait for the interpretation and claim they have asked UEFA about the case Dortmund is 5th and wins the UCL, and UEFA confirms to them Bundesliga will get 6 teams. Even the official website Bundesliga.com says it.
https://www.kicker.de/der-bvb-kann-der- ... 02/artikel
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundeslig ... ents-26569

[perica]

I am not sure that speculations about 6 teams from Germany/Italy are completely true. Actually they are true if Borussia/Roma win their respective tournaments this season, but finish domestic championship below 5th position. In such case, their countries will already have 5 representatives (because of EPS) + Borussia/Roma as Champions/Europa League title holder.

But if Borussia wins Champions League and finishes 5th in Bundesliga, I don't see why would Germany get an extra spot. Position 5 means that EPS has already been used and it is taken by Borussia who has already qualified as Champions League title holder. That is equal scenario as they finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Or PSG finishes at top 4 of Ligue 1 or Real at top 4 of La Liga. If a title holder qualifies for the group stage thru domestic competition, it never opens a new spot for the best ranked team from domestic league not already qualified.

If Borussia finishes at position 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. that is another story. If they finish below 8th place, then Germany will even be represented by 9 teams next season. All regulations state following: if title holder of any competition qualified for Europe, then number of teams from their country keeps unchanged. Only change can be applied for switching from one competition to another (like Villarreal 2021, promoted to CL as EL winners leaving UECL without Spanish team that season).

EPS updates default access list of the association by shifting places below regular CL group stage berths. In German example that means 5th placed team is promoted to CL GS, 6th placed team is promoted to EL GS, while 7th placed team enters Conference League play-off. Of course, I am talking apart of Cup Winner. Nevertheless, EPS will increase number of total representatives by 1, regardless of champions league title holder. If title holder is any of those 8 teams, then total number stays unchanged. Otherwise, it will be increased up to 9. Even, if both Champions and Europa League title holder come from Germany and finish below 8th place, then Germany will be represented by 10 teams!

It was open to interpretation. But several german media couldn't wait for the interpretation and claim they have asked UEFA about the case Dortmund is 5th and wins the UCL, and UEFA confirms to them Bundesliga will get 6 teams. Even the official website Bundesliga.com says it.
https://www.kicker.de/der-bvb-kann-der- ... 02/artikel
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundeslig ... ents-26569

This is explanatory from CL 2024/25 regulations:

The EPS is allocated to the club that finishes the relevant association's domestic championship in the highest position of all those that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship (after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06). The two associations' overall quota of clubs qualifying to UEFA club competitions are each increased by one club.

So, accent is put on teams who haven't qualified thru domestic championship. Not about teams who have not already been qualified. Therefore if Germany has four entries qualified at the virtue of Bundesliga, then EPS is given to 5th placed team. UEFA doesn't know (or doesn't care) who is actual European champion. If that is the same team, then access list should be rebalanced, not German teams, However, comment in the brackets "(after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06)" makes things more confused.

[TommyChat]

I am not sure that speculations about 6 teams from Germany/Italy are completely true. Actually they are true if Borussia/Roma win their respective tournaments this season, but finish domestic championship below 5th position. In such case, their countries will already have 5 representatives (because of EPS) + Borussia/Roma as Champions/Europa League title holder.

But if Borussia wins Champions League and finishes 5th in Bundesliga, I don't see why would Germany get an extra spot. Position 5 means that EPS has already been used and it is taken by Borussia who has already qualified as Champions League title holder. That is equal scenario as they finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Or PSG finishes at top 4 of Ligue 1 or Real at top 4 of La Liga. If a title holder qualifies for the group stage thru domestic competition, it never opens a new spot for the best ranked team from domestic league not already qualified.

If Borussia finishes at position 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. that is another story. If they finish below 8th place, then Germany will even be represented by 9 teams next season. All regulations state following: if title holder of any competition qualified for Europe, then number of teams from their country keeps unchanged. Only change can be applied for switching from one competition to another (like Villarreal 2021, promoted to CL as EL winners leaving UECL without Spanish team that season).

EPS updates default access list of the association by shifting places below regular CL group stage berths. In German example that means 5th placed team is promoted to CL GS, 6th placed team is promoted to EL GS, while 7th placed team enters Conference League play-off. Of course, I am talking apart of Cup Winner. Nevertheless, EPS will increase number of total representatives by 1, regardless of champions league title holder. If title holder is any of those 8 teams, then total number stays unchanged. Otherwise, it will be increased up to 9. Even, if both Champions and Europa League title holder come from Germany and finish below 8th place, then Germany will be represented by 10 teams!

It was open to interpretation. But several german media couldn't wait for the interpretation and claim they have asked UEFA about the case Dortmund is 5th and wins the UCL, and UEFA confirms to them Bundesliga will get 6 teams. Even the official website Bundesliga.com says it.
https://www.kicker.de/der-bvb-kann-der- ... 02/artikel
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundeslig ... ents-26569

This is explanatory from CL 2024/25 regulations:

The EPS is allocated to the club that finishes the relevant association's domestic championship in the highest position of all those that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship (after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06). The two associations' overall quota of clubs qualifying to UEFA club competitions are each increased by one club.

So, accent is put on teams who haven't qualified thru domestic championship. Not about teams who have not already been qualified. Therefore if Germany has four entries qualified at the virtue of Bundesliga, then EPS is given to 5th placed team. UEFA doesn't know (or doesn't care) who is actual European champion. If that is the same team, then access list should be rebalanced, not German teams, However, comment in the brackets "(after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06)" makes things more confused.

The sources claiming that 6th qualifies in this case claim that UEFA confirmed to them that the line "via domestic championship" was used to exclude Cup Winner who is regarded as that top seed from the EL/ECL qualifiers.

[bert.kassies]

UEFA updated Annex A of the regulations with the Access List including the suspension of Russian clubs from participation in UEFA competitions.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/files/2024-25 ... s-list.pdf

[Fotcalc]

Thank you for sharing, Bert.

[eye]

What is still unclear to me is if CW of Norway can be promoted to EL-Q3 in case CL-W or EL-W qualify at EL-Q3 or later round of EL (eg Dortmund, Roma, Atalanta). If the banned clubs and THs qualified to minor competition belong to a category of missing spots to be filled then the CW of Denmark should be also promoted to EL-Q2 if one of CL-W or EL-W has qualified EL-Q3 or later round of EL (and CW of Croatia when both). If it is a different category and ban is treat as a different case then CW or Norway should be promoted to Q3 (and CW of Denmark when both THs have qualified at least to EL-Q3) since is the only CW of Q2.
Since rebalancing based on club coefficients for THs replacements is done after the rebalancing for the ban of Russia then if a club of CL-nc path wins EL rebalancing then there will be 2 pairs at CL-Q2nc so we will have 1 less club at EL-Q3 and it is pretty clear that CW of Norway will be promoted to Q3 since is the only CW of Q2.

[perica]

If next season's EFL Cup winner finishes 15th and England wins EPS who gets moved up to EL?
The LC-W or the 6th (or 7th) in the league who wouldn't even qualify for Europe without EPS?

Edit: from the regulations it seems that the club that wouldn't qualify for Europe gets to UECL unless this NA doesn't have an ECL spot due to TH rebalancing, so it should be EFL Cup winner in EL. But LC-W is a special case so I'm still not sure.

With current access list, league cup winner is treated as the lowest european entry. Even if they win regularly, 6th placed team who qualified only because fa cup winner is top 5 finisher, they will qualify to europa league while leagu cup winner keeps qualification to conference league.

Only exception was when losing cup finalist rule was active. Then league cup winner took an advantage over losing cul finalist.

[eye]

@bert.kassies I want to ask you few questions because I can't understand how they are planning the rebalancing based on the regulations.

1) UEFA published a rebalanced access list at regulations and the only change at CL's access list is that CHs of Sweden and Poland were promoted to Q2. Based on which paragraph of CL regulations has this done?

2) At 3.11 of EL regulations is stated "In the event of any other vacancies, and further knock-on effects in the UEFA Conference League, priority is given to the best ranked club(s) or the cup winner(s) (or the club(s) replacing it if it qualifies for the UEFA Champions League) of the association ranked highest in the access list for the previous round of the corresponding path." I find this paragraph pointless when they don't explain when the priority is at the highest ranked club and when the priority is at CW. Forgetting the pointless comment which are the possible other vacancies at EL that were not covered from ECL-W rebalancing? The only missing spots I can see is when CL-W and/or EL-W has/have qualified domestically at EL and I am not even sure if these cases aren't considered knock-on effects of CL. So if they are reffering at these cases which club has priority? Are there any other possible vacancies?