ECJ verdict on UEFA vs Superleague

[babaluj1]

The real question to which we still do not have an answer is when will the European Super League start and with which clubs in the Star, Gold and Blue League in the first season?
The Star League with 16 clubs will mostly be filled with clubs from the Top 5 big leagues, maybe a Dutch or Portuguese club.
In the Gold League with 16 clubs, we can expect several more clubs from the Top 5 leagues, the Netherlands and Portugal, and champions or followers of other countries such as Belgium, Turkey, Scotland....
The Blue League of 32 clubs should be dominated by club champions and followers of countries below 10th place.
What is known is that the basic criteria for entering the European Superleague will be the results in the domestic championships and the transparency of the clubs.

[Ricardo]

The real question to me is “where the hell do they think they get the money from?”
UEFA isn’t stupid and pretty well sells their competitions. So if a SuperLeague now claims to give 64 (or more?) the double of what they get from UEFA, the total money spend by us on football is almost tripled? I am not going to pay for that, so who is?

By the way could there become a minor league due to the ruling? To hold all the teams eliminated in the qualy rounds but who still wants to continue and can attract full stadiums for a match like Twente-Hajduk? Could be much more interesting, especially for Dutch and Croatian watchers as Betis-Aston Villa….

[babaluj1]

The real question to me is “where the hell do they think they get the money from?”
UEFA isn’t stupid and pretty well sells their competitions. So if a SuperLeague now claims to give 64 (or more?) the double of what they get from UEFA, the total money spend by us on football is almost tripled? I am not going to pay for that, so who is?

By the way could there become a minor league due to the ruling? To hold all the teams eliminated in the qualy rounds but who still wants to continue and can attract full stadiums for a match like Twente-Hajduk? Could be much more interesting, especially for Dutch and Croatian watchers as Betis-Aston Villa….

Hajduk has in the HNL, with clubs much worse than Twente, an average of 20,000 fans on stadium, with Twente the stadium would certainly be full in the ECL, around 40,000 and a crazy atmosphere. And for the away game in the Netherlands, over 10,000 Hajduk fans would surely come, maybe even over 20,000 if they could get tickets. Hajduk is a club with a great history, it once played in the quarter-finals of the CL, multiple champions and Cup winners both in ex-Yugoslavia and in Croatia. But they haven't been the champion of Croatia for 19 years, they have disastrous results, but the last two seasons they won the Cup and were second in the championship, now they are the leaders because Dinamo is in a big crisis and they want to keep the top spot. If they win the championship in Split will be an unforgettable party for 7 days and nights. Even though I support Rijeka, I will not miss the celebration in Split, it will be crazy there, and Dalmatia has the most beautiful women in Croatia. Dalmatians are by far the craziest football fanatics in Croatia, a mentality like Argentina or Brazil.
Where does the money for the European Super League come from? I don't know, but I assume the same as in the Premiership, either Americans or Arabs are behind it. Maybe even Russian oligarchs, I don't know who else could finance it, even with a free global digital platform at the start, probably not for long. What I read is that they are planning to start with the European Super League in September 2025. Whoever invests will certainly push their clubs into the European Super League, and Real Madrid and Barcelona are globally the most popular clubs in the world, and this can pay off well in the long run.
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[Overgame]

The real question to me is “where the hell do they think they get the money from?”
UEFA isn’t stupid and pretty well sells their competitions. So if a SuperLeague now claims to give 64 (or more?) the double of what they get from UEFA, the total money spend by us on football is almost tripled? I am not going to pay for that, so who is?

By the way could there become a minor league due to the ruling? To hold all the teams eliminated in the qualy rounds but who still wants to continue and can attract full stadiums for a match like Twente-Hajduk? Could be much more interesting, especially for Dutch and Croatian watchers as Betis-Aston Villa….

I'll use 21/22, since we have the report. For the CL:
Media Rights: 2 643 258 000
Commercial Rights: 444 075 000
Tickets: 24 617 000
Hospitality: 26 131 000

Total: 3 138 081 000

Distribution to clubs: 2 106 341 000
Referee-type costs: 11 139 000
The next three are not CL-only.
Event Expenses: 259 953 000
Computer cost: 56 542 000
Employees: 131 058 000

Total: 2 565 033 000

As you can see, the TV rights are a really big deal. For EL/ECL combined, the TV rights are around 400 000 000 (and 700 000 000 distributed to clubs). In their SL, instead of 6 * 2 games (6MD, 2 days per matchday) they'll sell 14 * 2 games, but without games between "poor teams" like Ajax, Brugge, Besiktas, etc. So they expect (and are probably right about it) something close to doubling the TV rights. Just to put things into perspective:

In 21/22 City played gampes against PSG, Leipzig, Brugge, Sporting, Atlético, Real and if they won that tie, Liverpool.
15 games, 4 "low interest" games.
In the SL, remove Brugge and Sporting, add Juventus and Chelsea and you only covered the GS. Add a quarter against Barcelona, a semi against Bayern and a final against Real (for a rematch).
19 games, no "low interest" games.

Consider a Gold League with 5 english, 3 spanish, 3 german, 4 italian and PSG and you get the picture. Oh and add one team from these 5 countries fighting for the promotion in the lower division, so they keep total control of it.
They'll lose the other markets, but combined they don't even match the market of a single top 5 country. On the other hand, they will be selling this SL to Asia and USA.

[Sagy]

The plan for the SL is not to sell media rights. The plan is to make money be selling directed advertising on one side and premium services on the other.

If they are right (far from certain) then they stand to make much more than UEFA which sells its media right to companies that hope to make profit by selling advertising or make more money than they spent on buying the media right for a region.

[babaluj1]

What is interesting is that UEFA and ESL are adapting to each other. UEFA CL is more and more similar to STAR Superliga, and BLUE Superliga is more and more similar to UEFA ECL. Three strong divisions each in UEFA and Superliga.
By league it will look like this:
UEFA CL 144 group stage matches+45 knockout matches
STAR Superliga 112 games GS+13 knockout matches

UEFA EL 144 matches GS+45 knockout matches
GOLD Superliga 112 games GS+ 13 knockout matches

UEFA Conference 108 games GS+45 knockout matches
BLUE Superliga 224 matches GS+13 knockout matches

It is obvious that the clubs in the BLUE Superliga will play a lot more matches than the clubs in the UEFA ECL, hence the three times higher earnings. I think the Gold Superliga will also be full of Top 5 league clubs, maybe some American and Arab clubs as well. They simply want to be seen globally as much as possible, that's the only way they can earn those astronomical figures for awards.
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[Overgame]

The plan for the SL is not to sell media rights. The plan is to make money be selling directed advertising on one side and premium services on the other.

If they are right (far from certain) then they stand to make much more than UEFA which sells its media right to companies that hope to make profit by selling advertising or make more money than they spent on buying the media right for a region.

You're making assumptions based on the marketting campaign of a marketting firm XD
They will sell TV rights. And provide a shitty online "free" solution, full of adds, probably during the games (similar to Twitch), selling an pricey "add-free" solution, with probably only commentary in english, no analysis, etc. That's how marketting works.

[Tazmania]

I appreciate the financials analysis, but it is equally important to analyse the fall in value of domestic competitions given participation in the Star and Gold Leagues is not dependent on domestic performance.

This has to be Real Madrid's plan: drain resources from national leagues and re-direct them to the SL.

[Sagy]

The plan for the SL is not to sell media rights. The plan is to make money be selling directed advertising on one side and premium services on the other.

If they are right (far from certain) then they stand to make much more than UEFA which sells its media right to companies that hope to make profit by selling advertising or make more money than they spent on buying the media right for a region.

You're making assumptions based on the marketting campaign of a marketting firm XD
They will sell TV rights. And provide a shitty online "free" solution, full of adds, probably during the games (similar to Twitch), selling an pricey "add-free" solution, with probably only commentary in english, no analysis, etc. That's how marketting works.

Other than objecting and speculating do you have any facts you care to contribute?

If their marking plans works, they will be successful. If it doesn’t, they’ll fail. Your wishes, assumptions, and speculations will not impact what will happen one way or another.

[eye]

I appreciate the financials analysis, but it is equally important to analyse the fall in value of domestic competitions given participation in the Star and Gold Leagues is not dependent on domestic performance.

This has to be Real Madrid's plan: drain resources from national leagues and re-direct them to the SL.

The key for SL model to work is that leagues will accept it. If eg La liga bans Spanish clubs of SL since they are destroying the domestic competition and same happens to other big leagues the only alternative SL will have is to create their own European League. Such model have slim chances to succeed since it is unlikely to see clubs from England, Germany and France taking part and people will be bored watching something like 20 decent clubs playing each weekend in a league that winner might be decided early and rest spots except relegation spots are meaningless.

[Tazmania]

Exactly!

However you design the SL, it will necessarily undermine national leagues and consequently drain their resources.

[babaluj1]

I appreciate the financials analysis, but it is equally important to analyse the fall in value of domestic competitions given participation in the Star and Gold Leagues is not dependent on domestic performance.

This has to be Real Madrid's plan: drain resources from national leagues and re-direct them to the SL.

The key for SL model to work is that leagues will accept it. If eg La liga bans Spanish clubs of SL since they are destroying the domestic competition and same happens to other big leagues the only alternative SL will have is to create their own European League. Such model have slim chances to succeed since it is unlikely to see clubs from England, Germany and France taking part and people will be bored watching something like 20 decent clubs playing each weekend in a league that winner might be decided early and rest spots except relegation spots are meaningless.

If FIFA and UEFA cannot ban clubs that want to play in the European Super League, then certainly neither La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, nor League 1 can. Simply because they are in the EU, and the EU courts do not allow it.
The only one who can possibly ban clubs and kick them out of the championship is the English Premiership. But even that depends on the decisions of the English courts. There will certainly be lawsuits due to monopoly in England as well. Neither FIFA, nor UEFA, nor domestic national football organizations are the owners of the clubs, but these organizations were created to serve the clubs, the same applies to the Superliga. They cannot attract or keep anyone by force and repression, they can only entice them to play in their leagues with good conditions and prizes. The clubs themselves will certainly decide on that, but certainly with the consent of their fans.

[eye]

I appreciate the financials analysis, but it is equally important to analyse the fall in value of domestic competitions given participation in the Star and Gold Leagues is not dependent on domestic performance.

This has to be Real Madrid's plan: drain resources from national leagues and re-direct them to the SL.

The key for SL model to work is that leagues will accept it. If eg La liga bans Spanish clubs of SL since they are destroying the domestic competition and same happens to other big leagues the only alternative SL will have is to create their own European League. Such model have slim chances to succeed since it is unlikely to see clubs from England, Germany and France taking part and people will be bored watching something like 20 decent clubs playing each weekend in a league that winner might be decided early and rest spots except relegation spots are meaningless.

If FIFA and UEFA cannot ban clubs that want to play in the European Super League, then certainly neither La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, nor League 1 can. Simply because they are in the EU, and the EU courts do not allow it.
The only one who can possibly ban clubs and kick them out of the championship is the English Premiership. But even that depends on the decisions of the English courts. There will certainly be lawsuits due to monopoly in England as well. Neither FIFA, nor UEFA, nor domestic national football organizations are the owners of the clubs, but these organizations were created to serve the clubs, the same applies to the Superliga. They cannot attract or keep anyone by force and repression, they can only entice them to play in their leagues with good conditions and prizes. The clubs themselves will certainly decide on that, but certainly with the consent of their fans.

If Real, Barcelona etc can create their own European League why can't the remaining Spanish clubs create a new la liga without the SL clubs?

[Overgame]

The plan for the SL is not to sell media rights. The plan is to make money be selling directed advertising on one side and premium services on the other.

If they are right (far from certain) then they stand to make much more than UEFA which sells its media right to companies that hope to make profit by selling advertising or make more money than they spent on buying the media right for a region.

You're making assumptions based on the marketting campaign of a marketting firm XD
They will sell TV rights. And provide a shitty online "free" solution, full of adds, probably during the games (similar to Twitch), selling an pricey "add-free" solution, with probably only commentary in english, no analysis, etc. That's how marketting works.

Other than objecting and speculating do you have any facts you care to contribute?

If their marking plans works, they will be successful. If it doesn’t, they’ll fail. Your wishes, assumptions, and speculations will not impact what will happen one way or another.

So you didn't even check what they're saying

"A22 does not rule out partnerships with broadcasters, stating, “Distribution partnerships with broadcasters, streaming services, clubs and content providers will also be an important component of the Unify experience to ensure ease of access for fans.”"

"Subscription tiers would also be offered for those who prefer to view matches with minimal advertising while enjoying advanced features such as favourite camera angles, live match data and other interactive options. Distribution partnerships with broadcasters, streaming services, clubs and content providers will also be an important component of the Unify experience to ensure ease of access for fans."

"Distribution partnerships with broadcasters, streaming services, clubs and content providers will also be an important component of the Unify experience to ensure ease of access for fans."

[Overgame]

I appreciate the financials analysis, but it is equally important to analyse the fall in value of domestic competitions given participation in the Star and Gold Leagues is not dependent on domestic performance.

This has to be Real Madrid's plan: drain resources from national leagues and re-direct them to the SL.

Sure, I was just explaining how the SL expects €400M per team, more than their domestic TV rights + CL revenue combined for the top teams.