ECJ verdict on UEFA vs Superleague

[Sagy]

You're making assumptions based on the marketting campaign of a marketting firm XD
They will sell TV rights. And provide a shitty online "free" solution, full of adds, probably during the games (similar to Twitch), selling an pricey "add-free" solution, with probably only commentary in english, no analysis, etc. That's how marketting works.
[/If they are right (far from certain)

Other than objecting and speculating do you have any facts you care to contribute?

If their marking plans works, they will be successful. If it doesn’t, they’ll fail. Your wishes, assumptions, and speculations will not impact what will happen one way or another.

So you didn't even check what they're saying

"A22 does not rule out partnerships with broadcasters, stating, “Distribution partnerships with broadcasters, streaming services, clubs and content providers will also be an important component of the Unify experience to ensure ease of access for fans.”"

"Subscription tiers would also be offered for those who prefer to view matches with minimal advertising while enjoying advanced features such as favourite camera angles, live match data and other interactive options. Distribution partnerships with broadcasters, streaming services, clubs and content providers will also be an important component of the Unify experience to ensure ease of access for fans."

"Distribution partnerships with broadcasters, streaming services, clubs and content providers will also be an important component of the Unify experience to ensure ease of access for fans."

Of course they will do whatever makes them the most money. I was stating their primary approach and specifically stated “If they are right (far from certain)”.

My issue is not with facts, my issue is with speculation like “full of adds, probably during the games”, “pricey "add-free" solution”, “no analysis”. These may or may not be true, right now it’s just speculation. Even if true, if this marketing approach works (I’m not saying it will) then the SL will have money to support what they are doing and pay the teams more than UEFA currently can.

[Eurocity]

As you can see, the TV rights are a really big deal. For EL/ECL combined, the TV rights are around 400 000 000 (and 700 000 000 distributed to clubs). In their SL, instead of 6 * 2 games (6MD, 2 days per matchday) they'll sell 14 * 2 games, but without games between "poor teams" like Ajax, Brugge, Besiktas, etc. So they expect (and are probably right about it) something close to doubling the TV rights. Just to put things into perspective:

In 21/22 City played gampes against PSG, Leipzig, Brugge, Sporting, Atlético, Real and if they won that tie, Liverpool.
15 games, 4 "low interest" games.
In the SL, remove Brugge and Sporting, add Juventus and Chelsea and you only covered the GS. Add a quarter against Barcelona, a semi against Bayern and a final against Real (for a rematch).
19 games, no "low interest" games.

I doubt it would work that simple.
A viewer still cannot watch more than 1-2 games a day (unless you start scheduling matches for midday for the convenience of Asian audience). Now neutral viewers also watch 1-2 games a day, selecting mostly the same top-clubs that would play in Star SL. So why would someone pay more to watch basically the same amount of games with almost the same teams?

And we must not compare with 21/22 season anymore, as the actual alternative to SL is the 2024-27 format.

[Overgame]

As you can see, the TV rights are a really big deal. For EL/ECL combined, the TV rights are around 400 000 000 (and 700 000 000 distributed to clubs). In their SL, instead of 6 * 2 games (6MD, 2 days per matchday) they'll sell 14 * 2 games, but without games between "poor teams" like Ajax, Brugge, Besiktas, etc. So they expect (and are probably right about it) something close to doubling the TV rights. Just to put things into perspective:

In 21/22 City played gampes against PSG, Leipzig, Brugge, Sporting, Atlético, Real and if they won that tie, Liverpool.
15 games, 4 "low interest" games.
In the SL, remove Brugge and Sporting, add Juventus and Chelsea and you only covered the GS. Add a quarter against Barcelona, a semi against Bayern and a final against Real (for a rematch).
19 games, no "low interest" games.

I doubt it would work that simple.
A viewer still cannot watch more than 1-2 games a day (unless you start scheduling matches for midday for the convenience of Asian audience). Now neutral viewers also watch 1-2 games a day, selecting mostly the same top-clubs that would play in Star SL. So why would someone pay more to watch basically the same amount of games with almost the same teams?

And we must not compare with 21/22 season anymore, as the actual alternative to SL is the 2024-27 format.

Currently there are 16 games per MD, 8 per day.
The SL would have 8 games per MD, 4 per day.
In the new CL format, there are 18 games per MD, 9 per day.

[Sagy]

The SL can also have the Star league as 2/2 or 3/1 per day (“top” game to close the day) to increase overall eyeballs. If they get a reasonable foothold in Asia they can even add an earlier slot with 1 or 2 gold league games on Tue & Wed and have the same 3 time slots on Thur for the remaining 4/6 Gold League and 16 Blue league games. The gold league games on Thur can be 1/1/2 while the Blue league are 4/4/8 or 2/6/8 for example.

An approach like this will enable people around the world to watch 1 or 2 games per day with people that are super “dedicated” being able to watch 3 per day.

[babaluj1]

The European Super League will have a budget of 5 billion euros for the first season, and they intend to pay the clubs 4.6 billion euros. The best clubs in the Star Superliga will earn up to a maximum of 400,000 euros, in the Blue Superliga the clubs' earnings will be three times higher than in the Conference League, meaning a minimum of ten million euros and upwards.

[Tazmania]

It is safe to assume that - at least initially - EPL, BL, Ligue 1 and Serie A clubs (perhaps excluding Juventus) will not feature, in which case they will never hit those revenue targets.

Meanwhile, any financial analysis of SL must include the reduced value of domestic competitions which will decline significantly.

[babaluj1]

It is safe to assume that - at least initially - EPL, BL, Ligue 1 and Serie A clubs (perhaps excluding Juventus) will not feature, in which case they will never hit those revenue targets.

Meanwhile, any financial analysis of SL must include the reduced value of domestic competitions which will decline significantly.

The European Super League competes with UEFA leagues, not national leagues. I don't see how it could harm the domestic national leagues, if it is played only during the times of the UEFA leagues in the middle of the week.
UEFA uses all its connections in football organizations and national associations to prevent competition and maintain a monopoly. Nobody likes competition, it's a natural thing.

[Overgame]

Guys, don't bother replying to him. He is either trying to troll us by p;laying dumb, or he is really missintg every single point made during the last 11 pages.

[amirbachar]

It is safe to assume that - at least initially - EPL, BL, Ligue 1 and Serie A clubs (perhaps excluding Juventus) will not feature, in which case they will never hit those revenue targets.

Meanwhile, any financial analysis of SL must include the reduced value of domestic competitions which will decline significantly.

The European Super League competes with UEFA leagues, not national leagues. I don't see how it could harm the domestic national leagues, if it is played only during the times of the UEFA leagues in the middle of the week.
UEFA uses all its connections in football organizations and national associations to prevent competition and maintain a monopoly. Nobody likes competition, it's a natural thing.

Position in domestic league won't matter, perhaps except for champions.

[babaluj1]

It is safe to assume that - at least initially - EPL, BL, Ligue 1 and Serie A clubs (perhaps excluding Juventus) will not feature, in which case they will never hit those revenue targets.

Meanwhile, any financial analysis of SL must include the reduced value of domestic competitions which will decline significantly.

The European Super League competes with UEFA leagues, not national leagues. I don't see how it could harm the domestic national leagues, if it is played only during the times of the UEFA leagues in the middle of the week.
UEFA uses all its connections in football organizations and national associations to prevent competition and maintain a monopoly. Nobody likes competition, it's a natural thing.

Position in domestic league won't matter, perhaps except for champions.

It is not true that the position in the national championships is not important for the European Super League. They stated that every year 20 new clubs enter the Blue Superliga, this will be the main predisposition for entering the Superliga. In addition to the transparency of the clubs, if the clubs are not transparent, they will be expelled from the Superliga. For those clubs that win survival by playing in the ESL, the performance in the domestic championships is not important for them, but it is important for entering the ESL. We do not yet know the exact details, how many clubs from which league will play and whether there will be a limit for each league or not.
It is theoretically possible that in the end only the strongest clubs in Europe will play in the ESL, let's say according to clubelo there are currently as many as 17 English clubs in the Top 64 of Europe, but I think they will limit them to ten or less, because they are interested in a large global viewership, so they will surely big European countries like Poland, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine have at least 2 representatives in ESL. I wouldn't rule out even clubs with invitations to ESL from other continents, that's the best way to increase viewership around the world. All competitions are followed much more when a domestic club plays in them. I am referring primarily to Asia and North America, but also to other continents.
​

[amirbachar]

The European Super League competes with UEFA leagues, not national leagues. I don't see how it could harm the domestic national leagues, if it is played only during the times of the UEFA leagues in the middle of the week.
UEFA uses all its connections in football organizations and national associations to prevent competition and maintain a monopoly. Nobody likes competition, it's a natural thing.

Position in domestic league won't matter, perhaps except for champions.

It is not true that the position in the national championships is not important for the European Super League. They stated that every year 20 new clubs enter the Blue Superliga, this will be the main predisposition for entering the Superliga. In addition to the transparency of the clubs, if the clubs are not transparent, they will be expelled from the Superliga. For those clubs that win survival by playing in the ESL, the performance in the domestic championships is not important for them, but it is important for entering the ESL. We do not yet know the exact details, how many clubs from which league will play and whether there will be a limit for each league or not.
It is theoretically possible that in the end only the strongest clubs in Europe will play in the ESL, let's say according to clubelo there are currently as many as 17 English clubs in the Top 64 of Europe, but I think they will limit them to ten or less, because they are interested in a large global viewership, so they will surely big European countries like Poland, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine have at least 2 representatives in ESL. I wouldn't rule out even clubs with invitations to ESL from other continents, that's the best way to increase viewership around the world. All competitions are followed much more when a domestic club plays in them. I am referring primarily to Asia and North America, but also to other continents.
​

Of course we are talking only about participants of Star and Gold, for them the domestic leagues won't matter.

[Tazmania]

Why would clubs topple Uefa? They already control it
Long-awaiting ruling feels like the emptiest of victories – Club World Cup expansion could already mean this is yesterday's war

The question for those rebels who back the European Super League project – Florentino Perez, Joan Laporta and the small group of executives and financiers with skin in the game – remains the same: what next?

They have long proposed the demolition of Uefa’s monopoly of club competitions and the establishment, as with the Premier League, of competitions owned by clubs, but even they will recognise that mountain that may never be climbed. The most optimistic ESL evangelists from that Madrid office near the Bernabeu, where all ESL operations are run, including its advisors A22 Sports, would only say that the European Court of Justice ruling was potentially the beginning of something.

Under their proposals, a three-tier competition would mean that should, for example, Aston Villa finish in the top four this season, they would not enter the elite European competition, the Star League, nor the second tier Gold League. Instead Villa would be placed in the third tier Blue League.

Sometimes it is hard to decide what is worse: the format or the branding. The division of Europe’s best clubs into classifications that sound like the names of pre-school nursery classes does not conceal the fact that this is an idea proposed in 2019. Uefa’s members rejected it then as opposition grew from domestic leagues. They did the same this time – now because any notion of the ESL has become so stigmatised none can safely go near it.

By Thursday evening all of the Premier League’s big six had rejected the idea as well as more big hitters across Europe. It did not feel like European football was on the brink of change. The backers of the ESL, Real Madrid and Barcelona, as well as A22 and its American financiers, have always committed themselves to total revolution. Nothing less than the defeat of Uefa. Increasingly one suspects the most disruptive influence will come from elsewhere.

Uefa has not been able to dictate terms to the clubs for a long time and as its influence has gradually been eroded, its battle has been to avoid the fate of the English Football League in 1992.

Instead it is in a marriage of convenience with the European Club Association (ECA), led by Paris StGermain chairman Nasser Al-Khelaifi. Between them, Uefa president Aleksandar Ceferin and Al-Khelaifi have created the new post-2024 Uefa competition format and divided the wealth that flows from it, with the Qatari negotiating on the part of the clubs. Al-Khelaifi holds another card, too, the huge Middle East broadcast deal that Uefa has with the Qatari beIN Sports.

Not everyone likes it, especially the lack of effective financial control of nation-state clubs of which PSG are one. Perhaps that is why Arsenal are newly radicalised in their opposition to nation-state clubs. Nevertheless, for now, that Uefa-ECA axis holds strong.

Broadly speaking, the tail wags the dog: Uefa does not move without ECA’s approval and the two own a joint venture that controls all the billions of euros of competition revenue. ECA’s power is only likely to grow and one assumes at some point a peace accord will be agreed with Real and Barcelona to allow the rebels to slip quietly back into government. The great ESL revolution will be over.

Most now are focused on a new front: the Fifa Club World Cup expansion launching in 2025. That looks like a much more credible challenge to the hegemony if Fifa can find a wealthy backer. Naturally one hesitates to look much further than Saudi Arabia. If the suggested starter prize money of €50 million (£43 million), rising potentially to €100 million (£86 million) for the winners, is correct, then this will be the agent for change.

It would create a new tier of clubs, capable of operating on a global level when it came to negotiating commercial deals and potentially developing revenue streams bigger even than those on offer in European football. A four-yearly competition might become a two-yearly competition and then – with the calendar at breaking point - something would have to give. That may well be domestic league football, and the number of clubs in top leagues.

In the time since the fall of Super League 1.0, Fifa and ECA have reached an agreement to secure the space in the calendar for the Club World Cup. ECA has the same agreement with Uefa for the new Champions League and its other competitions. The power dynamic of world football – those who control its finance distribution and those who monopolise its calendar – has flexed and realigned.

If there is to be further great change and transferral of power from Uefa to the clubs, then it is likely to happen through the arrangement already in place. The ESL breakaway might have failed but it made clear to Ceferin and Uefa that any deal with ECA was better than none with the ESL.

Degree of shame for Premier League clubs
As for the clubs, and their ownerships, the power of the fans that took to the streets over ESL was chastening. It will not have changed clubs’ plans to control more of the wealth, but it will certainly have influenced how they shape the public relations around it. Whatever gains the ESL might have won in the ECJ, the clubs will consider them much better exploited by applying pressure subtly behind the scenes. It is easier than trying to blow-up Uefa and recreate it anew.

There is a degree of shame too, among the Premier League clubs especially, that back in April 2021 they each handed over €2 million (£1.7 million) to the ESL and signed up to €300 million (£260 million) contractual penalties for leaving. Whatever happened to all that money is unclear. Some like Manchester City and Juventus have written it off in financial results. Others seem less willing to do so.

What was it all for? The ESL project, sustained by that small group of executives and financiers close to Perez, has always been something of a mystery. They seem committed to a belief they can topple Uefa but in all the time it has taken to get this far, European football already has new key players and new pressures shaping it.

(The Daily Telegraph, 21 December)

[babaluj1]

Position in domestic league won't matter, perhaps except for champions.

It is not true that the position in the national championships is not important for the European Super League. They stated that every year 20 new clubs enter the Blue Superliga, this will be the main predisposition for entering the Superliga. In addition to the transparency of the clubs, if the clubs are not transparent, they will be expelled from the Superliga. For those clubs that win survival by playing in the ESL, the performance in the domestic championships is not important for them, but it is important for entering the ESL. We do not yet know the exact details, how many clubs from which league will play and whether there will be a limit for each league or not.
It is theoretically possible that in the end only the strongest clubs in Europe will play in the ESL, let's say according to clubelo there are currently as many as 17 English clubs in the Top 64 of Europe, but I think they will limit them to ten or less, because they are interested in a large global viewership, so they will surely big European countries like Poland, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine have at least 2 representatives in ESL. I wouldn't rule out even clubs with invitations to ESL from other continents, that's the best way to increase viewership around the world. All competitions are followed much more when a domestic club plays in them. I am referring primarily to Asia and North America, but also to other continents.
​

Of course we are talking only about participants of Star and Gold, for them the domestic leagues won't matter.

It is a league system that is played in all European leagues. The best go to a stronger league, and the worst are relegated from the league. The club that finishes last will be relegated from the league and cannot play in the same league again next year.
In the UEFA filling system, you can be last for years and regularly play in the same league. A much fairer league filling system than the UEFA system. In UEFA qualifications, luck is one of the most important factors. They should have introduced the Swiss system in the qualifications. They introduced it to GS so that the round of 16 would be a real Super League, without clubs from small countries.

[matt]

Pardon me for the off-topic but... @babaluj1 It is mandatory to always add unnecessary smilies in your posts?

[amirbachar]

It is not true that the position in the national championships is not important for the European Super League. They stated that every year 20 new clubs enter the Blue Superliga, this will be the main predisposition for entering the Superliga. In addition to the transparency of the clubs, if the clubs are not transparent, they will be expelled from the Superliga. For those clubs that win survival by playing in the ESL, the performance in the domestic championships is not important for them, but it is important for entering the ESL. We do not yet know the exact details, how many clubs from which league will play and whether there will be a limit for each league or not.
It is theoretically possible that in the end only the strongest clubs in Europe will play in the ESL, let's say according to clubelo there are currently as many as 17 English clubs in the Top 64 of Europe, but I think they will limit them to ten or less, because they are interested in a large global viewership, so they will surely big European countries like Poland, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine have at least 2 representatives in ESL. I wouldn't rule out even clubs with invitations to ESL from other continents, that's the best way to increase viewership around the world. All competitions are followed much more when a domestic club plays in them. I am referring primarily to Asia and North America, but also to other continents.
​

Of course we are talking only about participants of Star and Gold, for them the domestic leagues won't matter.

It is a league system that is played in all European leagues. The best go to a stronger league, and the worst are relegated from the league. The club that finishes last will be relegated from the league and cannot play in the same league again next year.
In the UEFA filling system, you can be last for years and regularly play in the same league. A much fairer league filling system than the UEFA system. In UEFA qualifications, luck is one of the most important factors. They should have introduced the Swiss system in the qualifications. They introduced it to GS so that the round of 16 would be a real Super League, without clubs from small countries.

Your comment is not related to domestic leagues at all.