Swiss System for Europa League and Conference League

[rpo.castro]

Is it clear that we will have a full bracket and not draws for the knockout stage?
The last information I saw from UEFA dated from early december was ambiguous.

[Stadion]

Re. the league phase pots -- for an individual club they don't matter at all, right? Given that you'll be facing two teams (1 in ECL) from each pot regardless.

[fruki]

Re. the league phase pots -- for an individual club they don't matter at all, right? Given that you'll be phasing two teams (1 in ECL) from each pot regardless.

You're right, yes. For individual clubs coefficients will now only matter in qualifying. And for the league stage this means the top seeded teams will no longer have an easier schedule.

[fruki]

Is it clear that we will have a full bracket and not draws for the knockout stage?
The last information I saw from UEFA dated from early december was ambiguous.

I haven't seen anything to the contrary. Here it is explained on UEFA's website: https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleagu ... ng-you-ne/

The new format, with all the teams ranked together in a single league, will mean that there is more to play for all the way through to the final night of the league phase.

In the knockout phase, the teams which finished between 9th and 16th will be seeded in the knockout phase play-off draw, meaning they will face a team placed 17th to 24th – with, in principle, the return leg at home. The eight clubs which prevail in the knockout phase play-offs will then progress to the round of 16, where they will each face one of the top-eight finishers, who will be seeded in the round of 16.

To strengthen the synergy between the league and knockout phases, and to provide more sporting incentive during the league phase, the pairings of the knockout phase will also be partly determined by the league phase rankings, with a draw which likewise determines and lays out the route for teams to reach the final.

And here you can see the bracket represented visually: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... out-change

[Shing]

I also really like the increased equality in playing against teams your coefficient size too.
....
Also, another thing I love about the new format is no dropping down from UCL to UEL and UEL to ECL. I didn't like that at all.

Yes, these are also 2 significant improvements.

The loss of the draws at each round of the knockout phase is what I like the least.

Even though the draw itself was exciting, I think a full bracket system is much more fair. Previously if you managed to beat a top team in the knockout, you could just get another one in the next round. But now if you eliminate the 1st seed for example, you'll have the reward of playing against the 7 or 8th seed in the next round, instead of potentially playing a top 6 seed again.

Plus, I think it's exciting seeing in advance what your potential road to the final looks like. (although I understand some people prefer the full randomness of an open draw)

I do not mind fixed bracket too. Easy to implement game for fans to predict the bracket like NCAA.

[fruki]

btw probably the primary reason for the bracket having pairs drawn (1/2 vs 15/16) instead of fixed (1vs16 and 2vs15) is so they can avoid politically forbidden clashes without inventing new rules. Which they'll have to do if 2 of those pairs end up in the same bracket pair, but that's very unlikely to happen.

[rpo.castro]

btw probably the primary reason for the bracket having pairs drawn (1/2 vs 15/16) instead of fixed (1vs16 and 2vs15) is so they can avoid politically forbidden clashes without inventing new rules. Which they'll have to do if 2 of those pairs end up in the same bracket pair, but that's very unlikely to happen.

Or to avoid some kind of play to lose in last MD, like I can finish 1 or 2, but I see that finishing in 2nd seeded will have theoreticaly an easy path, by the league standings, so it my be in my best interest drop to second.


This can be done for any position. Of course others can do it, and also you might aim to a certain seed and be overcome by more than one team and end in a worse position but it could happen.

With the draw of pairs you don't know in what half will you end nor you know how each half of the bracket looks like so there is no point to chose between the pair. Its the same being 1 or 2, 15 or 16

[fruki]

You're right, yes. Although with such a small number of games in a huge league, the differences between clubs will be so small that I think it'll be impossible to "aim" for anything before the last game. In most cases, the difference between a win and a loss there will be a swing of multiple positions up or down (which is also a strength of the new system).

[Sagy]

btw probably the primary reason for the bracket having pairs drawn (1/2 vs 15/16) instead of fixed (1vs16 and 2vs15) is so they can avoid politically forbidden clashes without inventing new rules. Which they'll have to do if 2 of those pairs end up in the same bracket pair, but that's very unlikely to happen.

Or to avoid some kind of play to lose in last MD, like I can finish 1 or 2, but I see that finishing in 2nd seeded will have theoreticaly an easy path, by the league standings, so it my be in my best interest drop to second.


This can be done for any position. Of course others can do it, and also you might aim to a certain seed and be overcome by more than one team and end in a worse position but it could happen.

With the draw of pairs you don't know in what half will you end nor you know how each half of the bracket looks like so there is no point to chose between the pair. Its the same being 1 or 2, 15 or 16

Unless you are in 1st with a 4 points lead over 3rd with one game to go, I doubt that it will possible for a team to “play to lose” for a particular seed. For this to happen, you will need to be 4 points behind the team ahead of (otherwise, you could pass them with a win) and 4 points ahead on the team that is 2 behind you, (3 behind, if the teams behind you play each other). With 36 teams and only 8 games, I doubt that this type of a double gap will happen other than a 1st place team. The first place team will have zero advantage dropping into 2nd since there will be no way for them to know which teams will finish 16th or 17th (in case of a fixed bracket). Forget about being able to determine which half of the bracket will be better before the end of the last match day.

[rpo.castro]

btw probably the primary reason for the bracket having pairs drawn (1/2 vs 15/16) instead of fixed (1vs16 and 2vs15) is so they can avoid politically forbidden clashes without inventing new rules. Which they'll have to do if 2 of those pairs end up in the same bracket pair, but that's very unlikely to happen.

Or to avoid some kind of play to lose in last MD, like I can finish 1 or 2, but I see that finishing in 2nd seeded will have theoreticaly an easy path, by the league standings, so it my be in my best interest drop to second.


This can be done for any position. Of course others can do it, and also you might aim to a certain seed and be overcome by more than one team and end in a worse position but it could happen.

With the draw of pairs you don't know in what half will you end nor you know how each half of the bracket looks like so there is no point to chose between the pair. Its the same being 1 or 2, 15 or 16

Unless you are in 1st with a 4 points lead over 3rd with one game to go, I doubt that it will possible for a team to “play to lose” for a particular seed. For this to happen, you will need to be 4 points behind the team ahead of (otherwise, you could pass them with a win) and 4 points ahead on the team that is 2 behind you, (3 behind, if the teams behind you play each other). With 36 teams and only 8 games, I doubt that this type of a double gap will happen other than a 1st place team. The first place team will have zero advantage dropping into 2nd since there will be no way for them to know which teams will finish 16th or 17th (in case of a fixed bracket). Forget about being able to determine which half of the bracket will be better before the end of the last match day.

Yes that was my point.
I was trying to find an explanation for the draws between 1/2 to 16/17 instead a fixed bracked and I said that this could be a reason that they could be trying to avoid. Just guessing

[Partizan_Belgrad]

Can anyone explain the Swiss System? If you can, please let the teams be numbers from 1 to 36 and explain how it works? Do you know by the draw all 8 matches and rivals for each team? How do all this affect clubs from the same country?

First, keep in mind that this UEFA "Swiss" system has very little to do with the actual Swiss system used mostly in other games (chess, card games, esports etc), so reading up on that one will not help you in understanding this one. Second, I'm sure there are a ton of good explainer videos on youtube, but here you go:

Before the draw the teams are separated into 4 pots based on coefficient, so 1-9, 10-18, 19-27, 28-36. The full draw is made before the start of the league phase, so you'll know all your opponents in advance. Every team, no matter which pot they're in, will play 2 matches against 2 different opponents from each pot. So let's say you're team number 5: you'll play against 2 different opponents from teams ranked 1-9 (one home and one away), then 2 opponents from 10-18, 2 from 19-27 and 2 from 28-36.

Note that in which pot you're in doesn't really matter at this point (it doesn't make your schedule easier), as everyone's opponents will come from all 4 pots. And in principle teams from the same country will not play each other, unless it'll be impossible to make a draw otherwise (I guess for countries with 5+ teams), then max 1 match between teams from the same country will be allowed.

I already know everything what you wrote...
My question is simple: If my team is number 5, which numbers are rivals of my club?
What are the criteria, which decides about that?
Just like a lottery, pulling balls out?
Can Nr. 5 (my club) play in theorie against every other 35 clubs, except "countrymen" (2 opponents from every pot, that is clear from the begining)?

[Sagy]

Can anyone explain the Swiss System? If you can, please let the teams be numbers from 1 to 36 and explain how it works? Do you know by the draw all 8 matches and rivals for each team? How do all this affect clubs from the same country?

First, keep in mind that this UEFA "Swiss" system has very little to do with the actual Swiss system used mostly in other games (chess, card games, esports etc), so reading up on that one will not help you in understanding this one. Second, I'm sure there are a ton of good explainer videos on youtube, but here you go:

Before the draw the teams are separated into 4 pots based on coefficient, so 1-9, 10-18, 19-27, 28-36. The full draw is made before the start of the league phase, so you'll know all your opponents in advance. Every team, no matter which pot they're in, will play 2 matches against 2 different opponents from each pot. So let's say you're team number 5: you'll play against 2 different opponents from teams ranked 1-9 (one home and one away), then 2 opponents from 10-18, 2 from 19-27 and 2 from 28-36.

Note that in which pot you're in doesn't really matter at this point (it doesn't make your schedule easier), as everyone's opponents will come from all 4 pots. And in principle teams from the same country will not play each other, unless it'll be impossible to make a draw otherwise (I guess for countries with 5+ teams), then max 1 match between teams from the same country will be allowed.

I already know everything what you wrote...
My question is simple: If my team is number 5, which numbers are rivals of my club?
What are the criteria, which decides about that?

You will not know until after the draw.

All you know is that you will get:
- 2 teams from 1-9 seeds
- 2 teams from 10-18 seeds
- 2 teams from 19-27 seeds
- 2 teams from 28-36 seeds

From each of these, you will play one game at home and one away.

[Partizan_Belgrad]

That was clear for me, long time ago...but thank you in any case.

[Sagy]

We don’t know the details of how the draw will be done. There are several theories floating around.

[fruki]

Everyone talking about formats and coefficients, but nobody mentioned the real problem that's happening next season: with the Europa Conference League (ECL) changing its name to just the Conference League, what acronym will we use for it when CL is already taken by Champions League? Still ECL? CoL? Are three distinct two-letter acronyms for the three competitions too much to ask for?